Do you think facebook is dying and that forums may come back?

[Derick]

Been kicking around the idea for awhile about why bother keeping BBO afloat. Donations have gone down, I pay out of my own pocket for the site any more and while it's never been a revenue generating site, I wanted it to break even. It doesn't. My story isn't unique either. Lots of old vb/forum sites I was on barelyt have any traffic anymore.

Most of this was because of facebook using the groups features or whatever they call it. I havent used facebook in about 10 years and I'm better for it I'm sure. With all the crap going on with them lately, do you think that the forums will come back, or are they just dinosaurs wandering around before the meteor hits?

[RC-Lori]

Facebook has been verboten in my house for years, per my husband, the computer expert's say, for the same reasons that are just now hitting the news. He also can't figure out why people and businesses think they need to go through FB to connect. He likens it to the AOL era. And now with all the stuff in the news about what FB has been up to, I want even less to do with it. I resent the idea of having to be in the FB "clique" to be a part of anything, and I totally reject all the "friending" nonsense. I've heard enough horror stories on how all that wreaks havoc on people's lives. It just reeks of all the junior high crap.

Our priest handed out copies of this article. Scary stuff.
https://medium.com/@richardnfreed/th...s-c452870464ce

Thanks for keeping BBO going!

[CountofQ]

I sure hope it dies off. Worried a bit about what the next wave will bring in the social media department though. What will be the next "My Space"?

I finally gave facebook up back during the NFL's "take a knee" blow-up. I just had enough off being bombarded with everyone's opinions and the constant stirring of the S*** pot.

Occasionally, a google search for a business sends me to facebook as the business webpage. Those businesses do not get my business.

I prefer the forums, myself. I can save threads, or look up info & post from x# years ago. Not so with the FB. I would sometimes see links I would be interested in, but couldn't find them a day later after doing an intensive search.

I haven't watched much TV lately, so not sure what is up with them in the news.

[Shadow Shack]

Been kicking around the idea for awhile about why bother keeping BBO afloat. Donations have gone down, I pay out of my own pocket for the site any more and while it's never been a revenue generating site, I wanted it to break even. It doesn't. My story isn't unique either. Lots of old vb/forum sites I was on barelyt have any traffic anymore.

Forums have been a dying breed since the social media explosion. We're in the generation of instant gratification via self-justification, and that is exactly what outlets such as facebook and twitter offer...unlike forums that present actual facts, which can't be anything but bothersome to such types. For all the talk of knowledge, science, gestalt, singularity, etc --- the single biggest gift of the internet has been the greatest infestation of stupid that the human race has ever seen.

Why is that? Two reasons:

1> It trends against attention span, which trends against analysis, which trends against research.

That is, everything can be had in a hyper-distilled two-line soundbite, so over-simplified as to be actively misinforming, yet swallowed up wholesale. Twitter is the latest confirmation: not only can you find sound bites that have no real basis in fact, but now you can speak in them yourself.

2> Confirmation bias. With everyone having the same access to a soapbox, every moron out there is screaming his head off, waiting for a reply. Nobody likes to admit that they're wrong, even when they're being beat with it. While that may occasionally happen in forums, it's mandatory behavior in the social media outlets.

So rather than admit they're wrong, they'll stick their fingers in their ears (or eyes, mouth, nose, or whatever other orifice keeps out the science) and keep hunting for some other lunatic that agrees with them. And once they've found that person, they will take his/her very existence as proof of their own correctness. "Someone agrees with me, therefore I'm right" or "I have forty likes to your one, I'm right and you're WRONG!" See? No research required.

While this has always been a problem with humanity, never has it been the problem that the internet has made it...and we owe it all to social media outlets.

Most of this was because of facebook using the groups features or whatever they call it. I havent used facebook in about 10 years and I'm better for it I'm sure. With all the crap going on with them lately, do you think that the forums will come back, or are they just dinosaurs wandering around before the meteor hits?

I doubt it, the current generation claims that facebook is for "old people". They're all into twitter, snapchat, imgur, and such. Rest assured, if/when facebook bites the bullet and disappears into the ethernet for good, there will be a new and improved outlet to support their cause. Meanwhile the rest of the "old people" on facebook would have to adapt to twitter since that's next in line.

The problem isn't forums, the problem is the overwhelming majority of stupid out there and stupid likes social media. After all, the like button is the ultimate antisocial feature for social media, it represents someone out there agrees with what you said without actually stating any agreement, and that's all the justification they need in their complex decision making process...and if you dare to disagree then the person simply blocks you and wipes your response. As I said, "I have forty likes to your one, I'm right and you're wrong!" Science and facts be damned, and what are forums but a wealthy source of science and facts.

Putting it mildly, we're the old guard and internet forums are the Harley Davidsons catering to us...sans the marketing efforts, unfortunately.








P.S. had this been posted on facebook the general public would have only read "Forums have been a dying breed since the social media explosion. We're...blah blah blah". If you made it this far, congrats: you're NOT an idiot.

[Sorg67]

I think social media is staying and will evolve. It is very convenient and useful when used appropriately. I have unfriended a lot of "friends" who are not really people I stay in touch with. I also unfollow people who post a lot of annoying BS. I have less than 200 friends and I could probably delete quite a few more. My kids have over 2,000 "friends". I think people will get a lot more selective about who they "friend".

It was cool to see pictures of my nephew's trip to New Zealand. I follow the Wall Street Journal and Facebook does a decent job of putting articles I am interested in in my news feed.

I have turned my privacy selections to their maximum and I review them periodically. I am sure my information is still used in ways that I would prefer it is not, but I am not that worried about it. I would rather not see adds, but I would rather not see adds on TV either. But they have to develop revenue from someplace.

If political organizations try to influence me by sending me information in my news feed. I still have a brain. I understand where this stuff comes from. I know to take it all with a grain of salt.

All technologies are abused by some. Some people spend half their lives watching television. I think social media will become as integrated in our lives and the telephone and television. We just have to use them effectively.

But perhaps the pendulum has swung a bit far in the proliferation of social media. And perhaps it will swing back a bit. It seems to me that there is a place for forums like this. They serve a different but useful purpose. I certainly hope this forum survives. It has been very valuable to me.

[WoodstockJeff]

Cannot address the issue of whether or not Facebook is dying, but...

For a number of people, "the internet" is whatever they use to access it. AOL users will say "the internet is broken" if they can't access AOL. Yahoo users, too. For some people, if it didn't happen on FB, it didn't happen.

For me, if it only happened on FB, it didn't happen. If someone puts up a sign that says "Find us on FB", I'll ask, "Do you have a website?"

[Mad Matt]

Been kicking around the idea for awhile about why bother keeping BBO afloat. Donations have gone down, I pay out of my own pocket for the site any more and while it's never been a revenue generating site, I wanted it to break even. It doesn't.

Don’t be shy about prompting for donations. I don’t mind sending a few bucks and I’m sure others feel the same, we just need to be reminded every once in a while.

[RC-Lori]

Derick, tell us exactly what it takes, dollars and cents-wise, to keep BBO going. Give us a chance to pony up. Of course, we can't begin to compensate you for your time and passion in keeping this forum going, but I, for one, am incredibly grateful! I would never have become an RC without this forum, which has afforded me the opportunity to nurture the motorcycling passion in others. Yes, I get paid to teach classes, but I happily spend a lot of time outside of formal classes coaching and encouraging people, whether it's on here and the N1K forum, contact with students after class is over, riding around on the bike, or, heck, just being out and about wearing a motorcycle shirt or hat, or seeing others doing the same, and striking up a conversation that inevitably leads to, "Come see me in class!!" When we're passionate about anything, we enjoy spending the time on it. I VERY much appreciate your passion for keeping BBO going!

[RC-Lori]

Forums have been a dying breed since the social media explosion. We're in the generation of instant gratification via self-justification, and that is exactly what outlets such as facebook and twitter offer...unlike forums that present actual facts, which can't be anything but bothersome to such types. For all the talk of knowledge, science, gestalt, singularity, etc --- the single biggest gift of the internet has been the greatest infestation of stupid that the human race has ever seen.

Why is that? Two reasons:

1> It trends against attention span, which trends against analysis, which trends against research.

That is, everything can be had in a hyper-distilled two-line soundbite, so over-simplified as to be actively misinforming, yet swallowed up wholesale. Twitter is the latest confirmation: not only can you find sound bites that have no real basis in fact, but now you can speak in them yourself.

2> Confirmation bias. With everyone having the same access to a soapbox, every moron out there is screaming his head off, waiting for a reply. Nobody likes to admit that they're wrong, even when they're being beat with it. While that may occasionally happen in forums, it's mandatory behavior in the social media outlets.

So rather than admit they're wrong, they'll stick their fingers in their ears (or eyes, mouth, nose, or whatever other orifice keeps out the science) and keep hunting for some other lunatic that agrees with them. And once they've found that person, they will take his/her very existence as proof of their own correctness. "Someone agrees with me, therefore I'm right" or "I have forty likes to your one, I'm right and you're WRONG!" See? No research required.

While this has always been a problem with humanity, never has it been the problem that the internet has made it...and we owe it all to social media outlets.




I doubt it, the current generation claims that facebook is for "old people". They're all into twitter, snapchat, imgur, and such. Rest assured, if/when facebook bites the bullet and disappears into the ethernet for good, there will be a new and improved outlet to support their cause. Meanwhile the rest of the "old people" on facebook would have to adapt to twitter since that's next in line.

The problem isn't forums, the problem is the overwhelming majority of stupid out there and stupid likes social media. After all, the like button is the ultimate antisocial feature for social media, it represents someone out there agrees with what you said without actually stating any agreement, and that's all the justification they need in their complex decision making process...and if you dare to disagree then the person simply blocks you and wipes your response. As I said, "I have forty likes to your one, I'm right and you're wrong!" Science and facts be damned, and what are forums but a wealthy source of science and facts.

Putting it mildly, we're the old guard and internet forums are the Harley Davidsons catering to us...sans the marketing efforts, unfortunately.








P.S. had this been posted on facebook the general public would have only read "Forums have been a dying breed since the social media explosion. We're...blah blah blah". If you made it this far, congrats: you're NOT an idiot.

Well put, sir!!! Our priest talked about this very thing. It's psychological manipulation, designed to give us a hit of dopamine and get us addicted. People can't believe my 14 year-old doesn't have a cell phone, let alone a smartphone. We have enough trouble keeping him limited in his recreational screen time at home. I can't imagine him having it at his fingertips, 24/7. It's a tough line to walk because he's genuinely interested in programming and robotics, so now we're trying to get him away from programming stupid games and working on programming his really cool (and expensive) robot some more, learning new programming languages, and other useful applications. I'm confident we'll get there, but we really have to stay on top of it. Conversely, the neighbor kid has a smartphone. We went to the regional fair and sent them off to ride rides. We held his phone for him so it wouldn't get wet on the water rides, gave them an old fashioned watch to keep track of time, and told them to meet us periodically at a given place. At meetup time, that kid absolutely HAD to check his phone to make sure his parents or somebody hadn't tried to reach him. Good grief, his parents put him in our care. It was both sad and sick at the same time. The kid can't frickin' live without his phone for more than an hour. My son will be learning to drive soon, so the day may come that we'll reactivate one of our retired phones, with phone and text only, so he can reach help and such. We live in the country, and I'm sure he'll want to go see friends who live an hour away, so that makes sense.

It makes me sick to see a toddler in a shopping cart with his face in a frickin' phone or tablet. These parents better wake up to what they're doing to their kids!!! My kid had books and portable non-digital activities to keep him occupied when we were out and about. He never got my keys to play with either. I just don't get why so many people don't have sense anymore (Well, actually, I do, but I'll save that for the LEPR forum.)

[Sorg67]

It is tough to know where the right balance is between sheltering kids and exposing them to risks so they learn how to handle them. I have let my kids participate in a lot of dangerous activities, including smart phones, social media and online gaming. But their "dangerous" activities also included hunting, rock climbing, horseback riding, wake boarding, skiing, motorcycles, skydiving and a variety of team sports.

We have also given them a lot of freedom. I had a colleague who thought it was a bad idea to let my son drive our Suburban when he was 16 because it was too big. She about fainted when I told her that not only was he driving the Suburban, he was towing a 23 foot 5,000 lb wake boarding boat.

My kids have preferred the physical world activities more than the virtual world activities. But we never limited their access. We gave them choices and opportunities. It think most people prefer the physical world to the virtual world if they are given the opportunity to experience both.

I think rather than forbidding certain activities it is better to provide opportunities for preferred activities. I think the kids who get in trouble with online activities or drugs and alcohol are the kids who do not have anything better to do.

[asp125]

Facebook is for us old people, kids have all moved on to Instagram and Snapchat. But forums still have their place. Places like BBO, ADV Rider and marque specific forums are vast wealth of knowledge and inspiration about motorcycles and riding - without having to "friend" anyone to tap into that information.

[subvetSSN606]

2 thoughts...

- Like Lori said, don't be shy about reminding us to contribute. I certainly would, and I would hate to see this forum gone.

- I think it's more complex than just FB (although it is a factor). Unfortunately we seem to have lost "critical mass" for participation and debating differing opinions on stuff. We seem to have devolved to a few self-proclaimed experts who have almost monopolized the information being presented. A lot of folks got tired of, and frustrated with, trying to politely debate them, and they just left. I, myself, am certainly guilty of not participating as much as I used to, but I am still here and occasionally throw something in. Others are just gone.

I'm not sure what the answer is for regaining that critical mass and enthusiasm we once had.

Tom

[RC-Lori]

It is tough to know where the right balance is between sheltering kids and exposing them to risks so they learn how to handle them. I have let my kids participate in a lot of dangerous activities, including smart phones, social media and online gaming. But their "dangerous" activities also included hunting, rock climbing, horseback riding, wake boarding, skiing, motorcycles, skydiving and a variety of team sports.

We have also given them a lot of freedom. I had a colleague who thought it was a bad idea to let my son drive our Suburban when he was 16 because it was too big. She about fainted when I told her that not only was he driving the Suburban, he was towing a 23 foot 5,000 lb wake boarding boat.

My kids have preferred the physical world activities more than the virtual world activities. But we never limited their access. We gave them choices and opportunities. It think most people prefer the physical world to the virtual world if they are given the opportunity to experience both.

I think rather than forbidding certain activities it is better to provide opportunities for preferred activities. I think the kids who get in trouble with online activities or drugs and alcohol are the kids who do not have anything better to do.

My kid has done far more risky things than I ever had at his age!! He has a junior SCUBA cert, he shoots, he's ridden in a hot air balloon, was pillion behind me until the end of last year (he's too big for me to feel comfortable with him on the N1K now), goes to camp every year, etc. He just joined a robotics-related forum so he can connect with those types of folks. But I refuse to spend money on a stupid cellphone and service for a kid who doesn't need it.

[asp125]

BBO itself suffered the inevitable split like any other forum. There were those who got cliquey and left, and ones who left and formed the facebook group ironically. The usual drama. The waning popularity of BBO rides and life moving on in general also played a factor.

[Derick]

BBO costs all and all about 600-700 bucks a year, depending on load. I have it on a beefier server at the moment, because load demanded it, but I was considering taking a snapshot and rebuilding on a lesser, cheaper, server. When we moved to AWS, we saved about 300 bucks a year from dreamhost. Dreamhost was a good provider, and helped us grow at our hayday, but after becoming more proficient in linux and web administration I can make it work in AWS at a lesser cost. So that's good news! Also in our hayday, I would only have to beg once a year or so for donations. Sometimes we'd make 1100-1200 bucks and we were good for 14-16 months...but in the last few years, I get 200-350 bucks, and I dont remember the last time I asked.