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BRC weekend in MI - freezing my bearings off!

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  • atomicalex
    replied
    That's how it is in Germany - you get licensed based on the bike you test on. It is hp/weight-based, though. Basically it works out to 125 and under, 125-450, and 450+ for ccs, if you stretch it.

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  • AZridered
    replied
    Originally posted by atomicalex View Post
    You know, I do think that a huge amount of our problems with all of driving here in the US would be solved with graduated licensing. I know, it would kill freedom and destroy liberty......
    Utah is currently trying out tiered licensing. They've not been at it long enough though for significant data to have been collected. There are also a few oddities due to the tiering being done by engine displacement rather than horsepower; one may test on a 35hp 650cc cruiser and then receive a license allowing use of a 120hp sport bike, but nothing's perfect. Utah's law also has not time-at requirement. A novice rider, at the end of the BRC, could opt to test on an open class bike and receive an unrestricted license.

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  • atomicalex
    replied
    Yes, I was only allowed to move on when he thought I was ready to. All the while, cash flying out of my wallet. One riding session cost more than the entire MI BRC. That's how I ended up with seventeen instead of twelve - he decided that I was ok to go onto the big bike (don't forget graduated licensing!) and it was my choice whether to continue spending money or not to go for it. Of course, I did! I didn't have my contract extension yet, so I didn't know that I would be staying long enough for my license to mature, or that I would be buying a throttled bike that could be unthrottled, or or or.... Plus, big girl bike license.

    One other thing - there is no real "points" thing on the exam in Germany. You can goof up a bit here and there on the highway, but any mistakes in the neighborhood driving are immediate fails, and you get two tries for each of the parking lot drills. That is it. You can fail the driving test about a thousand ways, but only pass it two ways - on the first try in traffic and first try in the lot, or first try in traffic and second try in the lot. That's it. There is not two points for a foot down or such up to a certain score - almost any of the things that result in points on the MSF skills test would be immediate fails in Germany. So it is quite nerve-wracking - 45 minutes of waiting to be sent home.

    A good part of it is cultural. In Germany, your driving license means that you have the privilege to drive and you are expected to actually drive and drive well. You have to actively choose to get it, it's expensive and it takes forever. Here, driving is seen more as a right, and coughing up any cash plus a weekend is a big intrusion on freedom. OK, I overstated that, but it's close.

    One thing that is highly interesting to me is how well the MSF have refined their message with regard to the target audience. Let's be clear - I'm not the target audience! So the fact that I can clearly see the value in the BRC should be a credit to the MSF, and my wishing for more rigor is purely a reflection of my willingness to put time and money into this kind of training.

    I did like that while the scores were being loaded into the school system, the RCs gave a nice ten-minute commercial talk for the RRBRC and ARC, along with repeating the BRC every year. I would have gone even farther than they did (surprise) and talked about track days. Basically to catch the squid crowd and hammer on them a bit that there is an appropriate place for going stupid fast and it is not the street. And then compare the cost of the $25 ARC to a $300 track day, all with the focus that the ARC will prepare you to be quick on the street and stay out of trouble, because if you really want to go that fast, you need to go to the track, which you are not going to get to do for $25.

    You know, I do think that a huge amount of our problems with all of driving here in the US would be solved with graduated licensing. I know, it would kill freedom and destroy liberty......

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  • guitardad
    replied
    Originally posted by ds5160 View Post
    I think a compare/contrast between Germany and here would be interesting. Not as a knock on MSF training, but just the general difference between Germany and USA in terms of attitude on motor vehicle training.
    That's exactly what has fascinated me about this thread - I went back and re-read Katherine's old German training thread. 17 separate on-the-road sessions, including night riding and time on the autobahn. IIRC, it was up to your instructor as to when you were ready to move on to the next session. And you were paying him for all that time, right?

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  • ds5160
    replied
    I think a compare/contrast between Germany and here would be interesting. Not as a knock on MSF training, but just the general difference between Germany and USA in terms of attitude on motor vehicle training.

    Leave a comment:


  • atomicalex
    replied
    I definitely don't want to come off as down on the MSF curriculum! Seriously, I saw the mental level of most of the people in there with me. Believe me, it was fine. Do I wish it could be more? Yes. But the audience is vastly different from the training I had. I know that.

    Going any further with that subject would just get me into trouble!

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  • mz33
    replied
    Originally posted by LoDownSinner View Post
    A lot of the things, especially the "deficiencies", you pointed out in your initial post are the subject of endless threads in RiderCoach forums.

    Ad nauseum...
    And so I took the advice of my senior RiderCoaches and almost never go there.

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  • atomicalex
    replied
    Originally posted by Missy B View Post
    You forgot "They'll poke an eye out!"
    Not if they're wearing proper eye protection!

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  • Missy B
    replied
    You forgot "They'll poke an eye out!"

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  • LoDownSinner
    replied
    A lot of the things, especially the "deficiencies", you pointed out in your initial post are the subject of endless threads in RiderCoach forums.

    It's an advanced technique!
    It's something everyone should know!
    It will confuse them!
    They'll die if it's not covered!
    Body position should NOT be discussed in the context of the BRC!
    Body position MUST be discussed in the BRC!
    It's not part of the curriculum!
    Ad nauseum...

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  • atomicalex
    replied
    Being that the rear brake on the F did NOT really work well until I rebuilt it (oops), I never really used the rear either, until I read about it in I think Lee Parks' book. It was not an issue in Germany. I put concious effort into learning to get the rear a fraction of a second before the front. Also, trailbraking is a technique to be used when needed or necessary. It's not the only way to brake. It's just a really useful tool when you need it. Same with ignoring the rear - it's a really important tool to have in the box. I'm all about two fingers on the front at low speeds, and sometimes three, because my ring finger is so weak that it is the best way for me to get very very very light braking. That's right, three, with two flying.

    I don't see threadjack, I see trying to figure out what is realistic to get into courses. For me to do CSS, I have to fly somewhere and drop $3K+. There has to be a sweet spot in between an ARC and real racing/track school, IMO.

    jdoorn14 - At Schoolcraft Radcliffe Center in Westland/Garden City.

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  • OBX-RIDER
    replied
    Keith Code in his first book talks about having $1 of ... well let's call it attention or focus. When you are first starting you may be spending 95c of that buck on easing out the clutch coming off a stop... with a nickel left over for everything else. The day comes when you're only spending a nickel on easing the clutch out .. so little in fact that it is at the subconscious level ... it's automatic.

    There is a lot going on riding at track pace ... brake markers ... braking...end braking and how you end/ turn in point ... how fast you turn in... how much you lay it over ... apex ... exit point... corrections ... when you get on the gas ... when you start bringing it up ...exit point...rear tire sliding ok/not ok-hold throttle/ ease off trottle? ease on throttle ...and this is just one turn and they come fast. That dollar gets divied up pretty quick...

    After reading about Mick Doohan and his thumb operated rear brake ... I was relieved to read about someone like Kevin deciding as I decided that I was better off to spend the cents on other things than rear brakes.

    Maybe Kevin has changed his mind .... or maybe he has just drank the MSF Koolaid (which I find hard to believe ... he doesn't mind telling you which way is up) ...or maybe he has just compromised...

    I do know this >>> Keith Code used to put down trail braking as way to little gain for too much risk ... and he now teaches it in his advanced course ... though I think he still believes there is a lot of risk for the benefit...
    Last edited by OBX-RIDER; 03-24-2014, 02:37 PM.

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  • NORTY
    replied
    The only thing better than seeing TZ 500's at full song, is hearing them...


    Oh boy, talk about a threadjack!

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  • Trials
    replied
    Ya, ignore the rear brake just like this


    and
    33. may the force be with you.

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  • jdoorn14
    replied
    Maybe I missed it, but where in MI was your BRC?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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