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BRC weekend in MI - freezing my bearings off!

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  • #46
    There are a host of more advanced motorcycling classes available! I've done the ERC by MSF, Advanced Riding Clinic by Lee Parks, California Superbike 1-3 (twice) by Keith Code, Cornerspeed 1 (twice) and Advanced by Aaron Stevenson, and the MSF Dirtbike School put on by MotoMark. All of these were in NC or VA.

    Add in a few books and being attentive here and places like ADVRider and it's just not that hard to get a thorough rider's education... It certainly hasn't made me perfect (I went down twice day before yesterday pushing my limits offroad) but it has enhanced the pleasure I get in riding ...


    Let me add one more thing. When I ride with Keith Code's crew I try to ride exactly as they suggest. The same with the others. Keith did not teach trail braking when I did his school. I did not trail brake. Aaron does in his Advanced. There I did.
    Last edited by OBX-RIDER; 03-24-2014, 10:48 AM.
    The best thing you can buy for your motorcycle is gas.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Missy B View Post
      5 years since your last ERC or ARC?
      If you haven't taken the ARC yet, definitely recommend it. (Not sure it's been around for 5 years yet, is the only reason I mention this.)
      ARC = Advanced RiderCourse
      ERC = Experienced RiderCourse (also re-badged to Basic RiderCourse II)
      I guess it was an ERC that I took.....
      Silver '07 Kawi Ninja 250R (sold)
      '09 Kawi Versys

      Originally posted by Overcaffeinated
      Oh, hell, Smurf's right.
      First Missouri, then Minnesota, now Michigan.....it is my goal in life to live in every state that starts with "M" before I die.....

      sigpic

      Didn't vote??? Don't whine....

      "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" - Leonard Nimoy

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      • #48
        Originally posted by OBX-RIDER View Post
        One of the riders who claims he only uses the front brake is a guy named Kevin Schwantz ...
        Except during his superbike school when he reinforces the need for the rear brake. Think old age is creeping up on him?
        90% of happiness is choosing the right ethicist.
        WoodstockJeff: It's amazing how much looking ahead keeps you in the audience of the play known as "Stupid Traffic Stunts", rather than up on the stage...
        speeddemon: "Sarchasm: the aching void across which one cannot see that one has been pwned."

        Can't seem to post my full avatar

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        • #49
          Originally posted by OBX-RIDER View Post
          There are a host of more advanced motorcycling classes available! I've done the ERC by MSF, Advanced Riding Clinic by Lee Parks, California Superbike 1-3 (twice) by Keith Code, Cornerspeed 1 (twice) and Advanced by Aaron Stevenson, and the MSF Dirtbike School put on by MotoMark. All of these were in NC or VA.
          Been through those as well. Great classes. Had the opportunity to teach with Keith for awhile on the East Coast Tour and the military stuff. Very fun.

          Have you looked into Cornerspin? So far it's my favorite course in the area
          90% of happiness is choosing the right ethicist.
          WoodstockJeff: It's amazing how much looking ahead keeps you in the audience of the play known as "Stupid Traffic Stunts", rather than up on the stage...
          speeddemon: "Sarchasm: the aching void across which one cannot see that one has been pwned."

          Can't seem to post my full avatar

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          • #50
            Originally posted by NORTY View Post
            You'll find this often within the MSF cirriculum (sp). There's more than one way to skin a cat.
            Not just with the curriculum but with the RiderCoaches. I can't tell you how many times RiderCoaches have come up to me to tell me that braking with two fingers, braking into the turn, using the front brake at slow speeds (Trials manuevering habit), braking first with rear brake before engaging front etc are bad technique.

            Those coaches enjoy a "BRC is not the Bible" sermon to start their path into enlightenment.
            90% of happiness is choosing the right ethicist.
            WoodstockJeff: It's amazing how much looking ahead keeps you in the audience of the play known as "Stupid Traffic Stunts", rather than up on the stage...
            speeddemon: "Sarchasm: the aching void across which one cannot see that one has been pwned."

            Can't seem to post my full avatar

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            • #51
              Originally posted by storysunfolding View Post
              Except during his superbike school when he reinforces the need for the rear brake. Think old age is creeping up on him?
              Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School: Motorcycle Race Track Tips, Texas-Style
              30-plus KSSS-approved things to do at your next track day
              By Mitch Boehm, Photography by George Roberts
              Motorcyclist, August 07, 2006
              5
              Track Tips Texas Style Kevin Schwantz
              1. Increase your speed incrementally.
              2. Find and use reference points for braking, turn-in and apex.
              3. Focus your vision way out front.
              4. Select a gear that uses 60-80 percent of redline at the exit.
              5. Be loose on the bike and bars, not rigid.
              6. Get body position set for corners early.
              7. Hang off slightly--and comfortably--in corners.
              8. Use your legs to move you around the bike, not your arms.
              9. Go slow when learning a new track. Get the flow first.
              10. In the wet, be super-smooth with all control inputs.
              11. Ride with the balls of your feet on the pegs at all times.
              12. Weight the inside peg entering corners.
              13. Weight the outside peg at the apex and exiting corners.
              14. Perfect practice makes perfect--helps muscle memory.
              15. Ignore the rear brake.
              16. Walk the track if possible.
              17. Don't apex early; late apex whenever possible.
              18. Get to neutral throttle ASAP approaching the apex.
              19. Apply smooth but forceful throttle exiting a corner.
              20. Keep body movements small or smooth while cornering.
              21. Braking distances increase exponentially with speed.
              22. Monitor chassis feedback through hands, feet and butt when braking.
              23. Ease off the brakes smoothly as you lean the bike into a corner.
              24. Brake in segments: first 10 percent (to settle chassis), then 75 percent (hard braking), then 15 percent (releasing smooth toward apex).
              25. Get hard braking done early; don't wait till you see God!
              26. Passing tip: Let off the brakes sooner and carry a bit more speed into the corner.
              27. Release the brake more slowly than you initially grab it.
              28. Ride a bicycle for leg strength and cardiovascular training; it'll make you a better rider!
              29. Control panic by being in control at all times; resist the temptation to go beyond your personal comfort envelope.
              30. If you get in too hot, look where you want to go, relax and will yourself to make the corner.
              31. Resist the temptation to tuck completely behind the bubble; sitting higher allows you to see more, which helps nail your braking and turn-in points.
              32. If you crash, get wide. It resists flipping.



              Read more: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ho...#ixzz2wtfPbcEC

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huGexZrovco Schwantz "I never used the rear brake at all..." ...
              The best thing you can buy for your motorcycle is gas.

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              • #52
                I'm not disbelieving the reference, just noting that his current curriculum covers the rear brake. He likely incorporated it into his regime when he worked with the MSF on the Kevin Schwantz RiderCourse back in 2011.
                90% of happiness is choosing the right ethicist.
                WoodstockJeff: It's amazing how much looking ahead keeps you in the audience of the play known as "Stupid Traffic Stunts", rather than up on the stage...
                speeddemon: "Sarchasm: the aching void across which one cannot see that one has been pwned."

                Can't seem to post my full avatar

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                • #53
                  Maybe I missed it, but where in MI was your BRC?


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                  • #54
                    Ya, ignore the rear brake just like this


                    and
                    33. may the force be with you.

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                    • #55
                      The only thing better than seeing TZ 500's at full song, is hearing them...


                      Oh boy, talk about a threadjack!
                      Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens.

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                      • #56
                        Keith Code in his first book talks about having $1 of ... well let's call it attention or focus. When you are first starting you may be spending 95c of that buck on easing out the clutch coming off a stop... with a nickel left over for everything else. The day comes when you're only spending a nickel on easing the clutch out .. so little in fact that it is at the subconscious level ... it's automatic.

                        There is a lot going on riding at track pace ... brake markers ... braking...end braking and how you end/ turn in point ... how fast you turn in... how much you lay it over ... apex ... exit point... corrections ... when you get on the gas ... when you start bringing it up ...exit point...rear tire sliding ok/not ok-hold throttle/ ease off trottle? ease on throttle ...and this is just one turn and they come fast. That dollar gets divied up pretty quick...

                        After reading about Mick Doohan and his thumb operated rear brake ... I was relieved to read about someone like Kevin deciding as I decided that I was better off to spend the cents on other things than rear brakes.

                        Maybe Kevin has changed his mind .... or maybe he has just drank the MSF Koolaid (which I find hard to believe ... he doesn't mind telling you which way is up) ...or maybe he has just compromised...

                        I do know this >>> Keith Code used to put down trail braking as way to little gain for too much risk ... and he now teaches it in his advanced course ... though I think he still believes there is a lot of risk for the benefit...
                        Last edited by OBX-RIDER; 03-24-2014, 02:37 PM.
                        The best thing you can buy for your motorcycle is gas.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Being that the rear brake on the F did NOT really work well until I rebuilt it (oops), I never really used the rear either, until I read about it in I think Lee Parks' book. It was not an issue in Germany. I put concious effort into learning to get the rear a fraction of a second before the front. Also, trailbraking is a technique to be used when needed or necessary. It's not the only way to brake. It's just a really useful tool when you need it. Same with ignoring the rear - it's a really important tool to have in the box. I'm all about two fingers on the front at low speeds, and sometimes three, because my ring finger is so weak that it is the best way for me to get very very very light braking. That's right, three, with two flying.

                          I don't see threadjack, I see trying to figure out what is realistic to get into courses. For me to do CSS, I have to fly somewhere and drop $3K+. There has to be a sweet spot in between an ARC and real racing/track school, IMO.

                          jdoorn14 - At Schoolcraft Radcliffe Center in Westland/Garden City.
                          Katherine goes to Fahrschule - the German rider training thread :: Nine Days in the Alps :: BRC 2014 :: Finding GS Land
                          2012 CBR250R (sold), 2001 Super Sherpa, 2004 BMW F650GSa - not a big Ford truck...

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                          • #58
                            A lot of the things, especially the "deficiencies", you pointed out in your initial post are the subject of endless threads in RiderCoach forums.

                            It's an advanced technique!
                            It's something everyone should know!
                            It will confuse them!
                            They'll die if it's not covered!
                            Body position should NOT be discussed in the context of the BRC!
                            Body position MUST be discussed in the BRC!
                            It's not part of the curriculum!
                            Ad nauseum...
                            Originally posted by OBX-RIDER
                            put the whiffer in the dilly
                            sigpic

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                            • #59
                              You forgot "They'll poke an eye out!"
                              CURRENT BIKES: 2014 Suzuki Wee Strom, 2016 Honda CBR500R
                              PREVIOUS BIKES: 2002 Ninja 500, 2002 Kawi ZR-7S, 2002 Kawi Concours, 2003 Yamaha XT225, 2006 Yamaha FZ6, 2005 Suzuki Wee Strom, 2004 Honda CRF250R, Yamaha TTR250
                              Test riding bikes since 2004.
                              If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to RIDE that thing will do!
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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Missy B View Post
                                You forgot "They'll poke an eye out!"
                                Not if they're wearing proper eye protection!
                                Katherine goes to Fahrschule - the German rider training thread :: Nine Days in the Alps :: BRC 2014 :: Finding GS Land
                                2012 CBR250R (sold), 2001 Super Sherpa, 2004 BMW F650GSa - not a big Ford truck...

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