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Thread: Geared for safety

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupin3
    Just out of curiosity, how does this differ from any other motorcycle? Don't get me wrong, you're quite right in pointing this out. The EX 250 and 500 bikes share a 27* rake, while the R6 has 24. Actually, the Monster 620 also has a 24* rake, the 748 has 24.5 and the GS500F has 25 degrees. Many seem to think that the M620 and GS500F make an acceptable learner bike...
    Steering geometry isn't determined by the rake alone, but rather the created trail.
    How much difference there is between EX500 and R1, for example? A lot. Front that gets very light under power only adds to the head-shaking nature.

    Can you make it friendlier? Yes, put a steering damper (which is very important for experts no less, probably even more) and stiffen it to the max. Still, I didn't try this setting, but I don't believe the gap will be closed.

    Swapping master cylinder is practically leaving your bike with enough engine to get you in trouble, and not enough brakes to get you out of it.

    Gearing the bike taller to reduce low-RPM power is a bad move for the motor, clutch, and for that one time when the RPM will rise to the point where the motor will unleash enough power to overcome the gearing and pull enough to scare the newbie to death in the best case. Plus, if you take big enough bike (a literbike will probably suffice), the motor will pull no matter what gearing you'll try to put there. Once I rode with my friend on the back, and showed him, how R1 accelerates with pillion on uphill in 6th gear from 3000 RPM (redline at 12K). In 3-4 seconds it got to the powerband (7K RPM, ~100 mph) and I stopped, but it's enough to understand - you can't downtune such motor by gearing. Also, no matter where the motor is in the powerband, if it's torquey enough, you won't have any "slack" on the throttle as you have in less powerful bikes - any slight miss will transfer to the wheel without hesitation.



    Also, Triumph is correct, a higher final drive results in shorter gearing. If that's what you meant - it's even worse, it's adding power to the already powerful enough bike. Many sportbikes use shorter gearing to add usable power in lower gears at the expense of the top speed.

  2. #12
    RiderCoach 1000 Posts! anthony's Avatar
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    That was "higher final drive ratio," guys. Higher ratio = taller gear(s).

    Lupin3, I think the lack of restrictor plates in the US is just due to the lack of a tiered licensing system. There's just no market for reducing the power of a big sportbike (for example) when anyone can ride one legally as a newly licensed rider.

    I'm with Smitty. Buy a beater to learn on. Your first bike won't be your last.
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  3. #13
    Miles of smiles We've stopped counting... asp125's Avatar
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    No newbie wants to pick up a 700+lb bike. Restrictor plates and other power reduction devices are one thing, but you can't engineer out easily its weight. Try making a heavy cruiser any lighter, by the time you're done you'd be lucky to have a frame and a set of wheels.
    Last edited by asp125; 02-03-2005 at 01:21 PM.
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  4. #14
    Flirting With The Redline Triumph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_R1
    Also, Triumph is correct, a higher final drive results in shorter gearing. If that's what you meant - it's even worse, it's adding power to the already powerful enough bike. Many sportbikes use shorter gearing to add usable power in lower gears at the expense of the top speed.
    Gasp! I need to correct you too! Gearing will never affect power, it affects torque only. It is impossible to multiply horsepower with gearing. But the result to the rider will be the same, increased propensity for wheelies, plus shifting more often.

    That's not to say gearing is a bad thing: who wants a bike that does 75 mph in first on the street? Shifting is fun! If you don't think so, well... go buy an automatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by anthony
    That was "higher final drive ratio," guys. Higher ratio = taller gear(s).
    The opposite of higher is lower...
    Last edited by Triumph; 02-03-2005 at 01:35 PM.
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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph
    Gasp! I need to correct you too! Gearing will never affect power, it affects torque only. It is impossible to multiply horsepower with gearing. But the result to the rider will be the same, increased propensity for wheelies, plus shifting more often.

    That's not to say gearing is a bad thing: who wants a bike that does 75 mph in first on the street? Shifting is fun! If you don't think so, well... go buy an automatic.



    The opposite of higher is lower...
    By "adding power" I didn't mean horsepower, I meant usable power. You're right, of course, the horsepower doesn't change - it's a function of torque and RPM, when the RPM go down (that's what higher final ratio does), torque goes up.
    And the taller geared bikes (literbikes of 2004, for example) are passing 100mph in 1st.

    But, I disagree about shifting.. I wouldn't want to drop a gear each time for an overtake. That's why I ride a literbike..

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