Low-Side, High-Side

[TeknoGTI]

Hi all, I believe that what I encountered was a high side. I was making a right hand turn when I felt the bike sliding to the left then snap back to the right. I read over some of the posts, but I dont think anyone really answered the question. Now I dont care what dirt riders do, I am not riding on the dirt. And would like to know what causes both a low and high side and what needs to be done to avoid them. Also what can you do if you are fast enough once you feel the effects.

When I was in my turn, like i stated the bike started to slid and then flicked back to the right, so i know I lost traction. Here is what I did, lean the opposite way and maintained the same throttle input, didnt not hit the brakes or give it more gas. I was lucky enough not to go down. I want to make sure, I never go down because of a silly low or high side, only because it was me that did something wrong. Hitting the brakes into the turn then giving it gas, etc. In this instance, I do not recall what I did wrong. I was hitting both my front and rear brakes then started giving my bike some throttle and into the turn i go. I think and believe I had both brakes disengaged. It was a dry day, no rain, didnt see any dirt.

Any help will be appreciated and I will continue to look through this forum for related subject.

[midknyte]

In laymens terms, in a lowside you loose traction, fall down and go boom. Rider usually ends up under or behind the bike.

In a highside, during the loss of control/traction, for whatever reason, traction is regained [in an undesirable or uncontrolled way] and you flip, fly and go boom. Rider can end up ahead of or in front of the bike - which can be nasty if you come to a stop before the bike.

I'll let someone else point out what conditions and your actions can do to cause, contribute, minimize, or avoid these types of accidents.

[remy_marathe]

When you say you leaned the opposite way, do you mean when you started to lose traction, or throughout the turn? Either way, that might've only hurt you by making the bike lean over even more to maintain the same line. It sounds to me like you just lost traction and regained it suddenly, either because of a freak slick spot or because you were over past your tires' limits, and did the right thing by not making any brake or throttle adjustments. Did you try to make any steering corrections during the event?

[sanglant]

Hi all, I believe that what I encountered was a high side. I was making a right hand turn when I felt the bike sliding to the left then snap back to the right. I read over some of the posts, but I dont think anyone really answered the question. Now I dont care what dirt riders do, I am not riding on the dirt. And would like to know what causes both a low and high side and what needs to be done to avoid them. Also what can you do if you are fast enough once you feel the effects.

When I was in my turn, like i stated the bike started to slid and then flicked back to the right, so i know I lost traction. Here is what I did, lean the opposite way and maintained the same throttle input, didnt not hit the brakes or give it more gas. I was lucky enough not to go down. I want to make sure, I never go down because of a silly low or high side, only because it was me that did something wrong. Hitting the brakes into the turn then giving it gas, etc. In this instance, I do not recall what I did wrong. I was hitting both my front and rear brakes then started giving my bike some throttle and into the turn i go. I think and believe I had both brakes disengaged. It was a dry day, no rain, didnt see any dirt.

Any help will be appreciated and I will continue to look through this forum for related subject.

A low side is caused by the tires losing traction, front or rear, and sliding away, and you falling off the low side of the bike (ie, in a right hand turn, you fall to the right).

A high side is caused by the tires, ususally the rear, losing traction, then suddenly regaining traction, and correcting the direction of motorcycle travel. This throws the rider off the high side of the bike (ie, in a right hand turn you fall to the left of the bike).

To avoid them? Don't lose traction, either by gassing too hard or hitting the brakes. If you do spin the rear, do not chop the gas, keep it on steady, and steer slightly into the skid. No violent or sudden moves. Also, RELAX!! If the bike flicks under you and you're relaxed, it will hurt your thighs and arms (ask me how I know) but you won't be thrown off. If you have a hard grip, it's going to flick you one way, and you won't be strong enough to hold when it goes back the other, which will put you on your head on the ground.

A mild slide is recoverable. A big one isn't. I would advise working on your riding in general and not concentrating on what to do if the bike slides. Once it goes, you don't have time to think, it just goes. That's why you practice in the dirt, so that the body doesn't tense up or slam the throttle down reflexively.

[MarcS]

Sanglant described it pretty well -- but under good road conditions, if you're maintaining throttle, not near maximum lean, not braking, it's more likely for you to hit a tar snake, rock, tiny bit of sand, &c and have the rear step out of line with the direction of travel of the bike, then right itself, vs spinning out the rear wheel (assuming you're on a sub-100hp-bike). The bike corrects itself with such force that even if you just hit a walnut and step the rear an inch, it might feel like you stepped it a foot. But if you really stepped it a foot, you're in trouble...

[LoDownSinner]

Sounds like you lost traction with the rear tire, it stepped out a bit, then whatever road condition caused the loss of traction was gone.

As far as what you can do if you're fast enough once you feel the effects, there are several things.
The first is to keep enough presence of mind to either not snap the throttle closed or let up off of the brakes, depending on which caused the loss of traction...
The second is to keep looking where you want to go. That will serve to automatically make you steer into the skid.

Too bad you don't care what dirt riders do. Dealing with loss of traction and getting the maximum performance out of limited traction situations is what dirt riding is all about. The exact same techniques apply to the street, it's just that you hope to rarely have to use them..

[nanite]

usually ends up under or behind the bike.

This is funny because in both of my lowside incidents, I ended up a good 20 feet or so ahead of my bike. I guess I just have a lower coefficient of friction than my bike on the road?

[Mugster]

Hi all, I believe that what I encountered was a high side. I was making a right hand turn when I felt the bike sliding to the left then snap back to the right. I read over some of the posts, but I dont think anyone really answered the question. Now I dont care what dirt riders do, I am not riding on the dirt. And would like to know what causes both a low and high side and what needs to be done to avoid them. Also what can you do if you are fast enough once you feel the effects.

Low siding and high siding are types of crashes, so you did neither because you didn't crash. What you experienced is a slide. The sensation of the bike snapping back to right is what would happen right before a high side if its violent enough...imagine that shock being 10 times worse and being physically flung off the saddle to the left...thats a high side. A low side in your example would be an unrecoverable skid to the right that would put you down on your right hand side.

As far as avoidance, sanglant and lowdown answered that pretty well. Riding a motorcycle is the same no matter what surface you are on or really how much horsepower you have as long as you can control it. As far as learning to control slides, the only way to learn it is in the dirt. We're not some crazy yucks for saying that either. One of the best road racers america has ever produced, Kenny Roberts, trains european 125/250/gp riders on xr100's at his ranch down in texas. Rich Oliver, the undisputed king of AMA 250 racing does the same thing.

Anyone half-serious about racing motorcycles or riding fast in general will tell you the same thing i think. Get it down in the dirt and apply it to the pavement. Because if you can't handle a slide on groomed dirt on a 150 pound/15hp machine, you've got no chance on a 400 pound/100hp machine, regardless of surface.

[TeknoGTI]

Thank you for everyone reply. Based on what you guys/girls wrote, seems that I did lose traction (which I knew) and then the bike tried to correct itself. It did flick pretty hard, but I was relaxed and didnt freak out. This is the second time its happened to me making a right hand turn. (one of them this example i gave and the other was i leaned to far and my tires lost traction) So I thought that maybe I was doing something wrong, which possibly is the case. Thank again for everyone input. Also, thanks for explaining to me the dirt issue and how it relates to street riding. In my original post, it may have sounded like i didnt care about dirt and the positives that dirt riding could bring to street riding. the only reason i posted that in was because I didnt want to hear generic explanations about dirt. For example: "Do what dirt riders do." <~~~~ And that would be what? The way you guys explained it was great. input that makes sense is always welcome.

Remy: With regard to my lean, i started to counterlean when I started to lose traction to get the bike back upright to get grip. I dont lean against the turn when i turn. If thats what you were asking.

Oh and based on the explanations about high and low side, i would have been flung off to the left in my right hand turn. I found what caused it this morning too while I was driving my car. There was a smashed water bottle on the road that wouldnt be effected by cars turning but it would a motorcycles as im going from out to in. arg. I guess I better start paying attention a little more with regard to the road conditions infront of me and scan close and far away.

[remy_marathe]

If it repeats and the road conditions are good, your throttle control going from braking to acceleration might be worth a check. I've slid my rear tire out by giving too much throttle too fast when leaned over, and I'm only on a 40-something HP bike.

Something I've been noticing lately (and it was a real "duh!" moment when I realized it) is road camber. It seems to have been the culprit in a few of my tractionless moments, when I had been assuming it was gravel. If the road has a slight camber that slopes down away from your turn, it makes your effective lean more than it feels like, and can put you closer to the tire edge without your body feeling like you're leaned that far. Add a slightly heavy amount of throttle, and shwoop! Rear tire slips.