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Thread: When too much is not enough?

  1. #11
    Flirting With The Redline 10,000 Posts! Shadow Shack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trials View Post
    This is all I could find on that one Shadow:
    "Positive Neutral Finder system is a device that prevents the transmission from shifting from first into second when it is at a standstill. Once the bike is under way, the centrifugal force of a spinning transmission shaft disengages the device, ideally allowing unhindered upshifts."

    ... only appears in forum discussions as I could see, would love to hear a manufacturers sales pitch or service bulletin on that one.
    I won't pretend to know how it works. I had a 95 BUBF 1500 Vulcan and I have to say it was the best shifting bike I ever owned. With 92ft/lbs of torque at your fingertips (the industry leader at the time), solid 1st-to-2nd transitions was a nice thing to have considering how easy it was to loft the front wheel on that bike. While I did miss the occasional shift, it was far less prominent than on any other bike I've owned or ridden (save for other Vulcans I sampled).

    The ease in slipping to neutral after you stopped riding was awesome (as mentioned it absolutely will not go into 2nd when not moving, i.e. it stops at neutral), unlike other bikes such as the "ultimate beginner bike" 250 Rebel where neutral is often nigh impossible to attain which, considering the habit of stopping at a light in neutral is easily dissuaded, but still...
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  2. #12
    Flirting With The Redline 8000 Posts! Trials's Avatar
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    Found it and yes, is probably a feature on many models of Kawasaki, consists of 3 tiny little ball bearings (~1/8 inch in size) inside one of the gears, centrifugal force is used to move the bearings outwards and away from a grove in the shaft. Bottom line is you can't shift into second unless the bike has enough forward speed to spin the balls outwards and away from the shaft that is connected to your countershaft sprocket.

    Sounds like an excellent way to find neutral instead of second to me, would be a terrible feature on a Trials bike where we regularly need to launch from second or even third gear on takeoff, but I can see why some street riders might like it.

    Lori, based on that you might not want to short shift into second gear.
    "short-shift' is the term I use to describe selecting the next higher gear before approaching maximum rpm in the previous gear.
    If you are hitting neutral lots when going from first into second, that is likely the source of your problem.

  3. #13
    Flirting With The Redline 10,000 Posts! Shadow Shack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trials View Post
    is probably a feature on many models of Kawasaki
    That's the thing, I believe it only exists on their cruiser line. Back in the late 90's I sampled a ZX-7 and a ZX-6R, neither bike had it. I don't believe the KLR-650 has it either. I don't know if that ever changed since then, perhaps someone here that has a newer Kawasaki non-cruiser could chime in?
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  4. #14
    RiderCoach 8000 Posts! WoodstockJeff's Avatar
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    So I guess my KZ440 and C14 are both cruisers...
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  5. #15
    Flirting With The Redline 8000 Posts! Trials's Avatar
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    I found charts that show Positive Neutral Finder featured on 6 different 2016 Ninja models; ZX-14R ABS SE, NINJA ZX-10R / ABS, NINJA ZX-6R / ABS, NINJA 1000 ABS, NINJA 650 ABS & NINJA 300 / ABS It was also featured on the 250 Ninja models and all 2017 Ninja models show it listed except for the NINJA H2R / H2 / H2 CARBON
    I didn't find it on any other brands, I think it might be a Kawasaki exclusive feature.

  6. #16
    Flirting With The Redline 10,000 Posts! Shadow Shack's Avatar
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    It is a unique-to-Kawi feature. Good to see it made its way to other lines, and interesting to see it predates the cruiser term.
    Sent from your mom's phone
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  7. #17
    Miles of smiles We've stopped counting... asp125's Avatar
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    It actually goes way back. My 97 Ninja 500 had it.
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  8. #18
    Flirting With The Redline 1000 Posts! liberpolly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asp125 View Post
    It actually goes way back. My 97 Ninja 500 had it.
    I had it on Ninja 250 and 650, very handy feature. Especially after some experience of fiddling with Ducati's fanthom neutral...
    "The better you're prepared, the luckier you get".

  9. #19
    Flirting With The Redline 3000 Posts! Galaxieman's Avatar
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    GP-shift pattern (1 up, 5 down) allows for more assertive upshifts. After switching one bike, and then another, and another... I’m not sure I’ll ever switch back. It just makes more sense to me, for multiple reasons. Just my $0.02.

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  10. #20
    Flirting With The Redline 10,000 Posts! Shadow Shack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asp125 View Post
    It actually goes way back. My 97 Ninja 500 had it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Shack View Post
    I can't speak on behalf of Kawi's sport bike line, but their entire cruiser line has been equipped with Positive Neutral Finder which helps prevent those false 1st-to-2nd changes and said line has been sporting this feature since at least the mid-90's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Shack View Post
    I had a 95 BUBF 1500 Vulcan and I have to say it was the best shifting bike I ever owned.




    FWIW --- the term "cruiser" was coined in the early 90's as Japan moved away from their post UJM "customs" of the 80's (AKA disco cruisers) and more toward American styling cues. The aforementioned KZ440 dates from the 70's, i.e. before the cruiser term. Hence, the 1985 CMX250C Rebel debuted as a Custom, hence the suffix on the designation. Ditto for the 1985 VT1100C & 1988 VT600C Shadows...they weren't called cruisers back then as the name hadn't been applicable yet.
    Last edited by Shadow Shack; 01-08-2018 at 10:37 PM. Reason: amended history at the end ;)
    Sent from your mom's phone
    "If I wanted a windshield and tunes, I'd drive my car."
    Ride Safe, Chop Safer
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    "Motorcycles are not unsafe. However, they are extremely unforgiving of inattention, incompetence, ignorance, and stupidity."
    Support your FLIBS (Friendly Local Independent Bike Shop)
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