Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 135

Thread: How do you know what 100% is ... ?

  1. #121
    Flirting With The Redline 8000 Posts! Trials's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    8,060
    High performance motorcycle suspension typically has the facility to adjust spring preload, rebound and compression dampening independently. The shock absorber body is filled with nitrogen gas instead of air and will feature an enlarged nitrogen/oil reservoir that can better dissipate the heat that will be generated during aggressive performance riding. Heat build-up in a shock absorber body will greatly reduce the shock absorbers ability to function. Spring rates in competition mono-shock rear suspensions are much higher by comparison to deal with the increased forces that are accompanied by high speed and horsepower with little or no consideration given to ride comfort. Regular street bikes are not expected to need to power out of fast bumpy corners with the front wheel barely touching the ground due to phenomenal acceleration, competition motorcycles are. Shock absorbers on motorcycles that are not intended for high performance riding such as the twin shock units on 30 year old street bikes and Harley's etc. are little more then spring holders by comparison, their primary design criteria was economy in mass production, preload is usually the only adjustment available to the rider and that does very little towards providing actual suspension adjustment changes.

    High performance motorcycles may indeed promote the rider to ride faster simply because they can and the bike will reward them for it, whereas a stock cruiser ridden very fast will exhibit all of their potential handling instabilities very fast. You ride a performance motorcycle through the foot pegs and the handle bars you ride a cruiser through your butt with your arms and legs stretched out in front of you where they carry little to no actual rider weight. Some refer to this as cruiser 'leg-room' there is no such thing as 'leg-room' on a crotch rocket.

    Motorcycle performance is limited to your tires and your tire performance is limited to your suspension. Your tires and suspension is limited by the motorcycles frame rigidity and all the things like steering head bearings, wheel bearings, chassis design and lightweight that together make for an excellent high-performance handling motorcycle.

    If your bike has side bins and a top box, the fastest, cheapest and easiest way to make your bike handle better is to lose the luggage. That will make the bike lighter and centralize the vehicles mass, which will reduce the load on your suspension and the accompanying heat that will be generated inside your shock absorbers.

    the best motorcycle to ride IS the one under you.

  2. #122
    A simple primer on suspensions.

    Spring rate, pre-load, compression damping, rebound damping, stiction. That's about it.

    Spring rate can be thought of as what it takes to compress a suspension an inch. There are straight rate springs and progressive rate springs. An example is if the springs are bottoming frequently during normal riding they are way too soft. If it feels like you are slamming into every pothole (ignoring compression damping for the moment) it's probably too strong.

    Pre-load is how much springs are pre-compressed. This is used to set "sag". How much is wanted depends on bike use. Much less is used on my track bike than my dirt bike. I also adjust my preload between riding solo, 2-up and 2-up with baggage.

    Damping can be thought of as how quickly the suspension compresses ... or rebounds. The first was just oil in cylinder with a hole in it. We've come a long way since then ... but the concept stands for thinking about how it works.

    Last is stiction which is the mechanical resistance to movement. You press on the forks and nothing happens and it suddenly moves an inch ... that is stiction (or friction). Stiction is bad.

    Let's give an example of a bike with a suspension problem, my Honda PC-800. Great bike just going down the road. But when pushed hard through corners you would get a pogo effect ... boingo - boingo - boingo. No compression or rebound adjustment and what it had was set to give a "plush" feeling ride. Bike was properly sprung but under-damped. Fine for around town but horrible for spirited riding. Think about traction as the weight on the tire is loading and unloading ...

    I find keeping it simple helps me toget a start to figure out suspension problems. A visit to a suspension specialist at a trackday helps too ...
    The best thing you can buy for your motorcycle is gas.

  3. #123
    Flirting With The Redline 1000 Posts! Sorg67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,872
    Thanks for the great info Trials and OBX. So much to learn....

    On the Versys, I don't know enough or ride hard enough to know whether the suspension is functioning optimally or not. It would be an amazing coincidence if it was since I have never given it a thought. I do not have any complaints with how it rides, but I also do not have a basis for comparison. It would be interesting to adjust it and see if I could notice any difference. Might be interesting to set up as stiff as possible, ride it, then as soft as possible, ride it and see how different it rides.

    I am only just getting to the point where I can feel the suspension compressing in corners. It is kind of a cool feeling when you catch it just right. I can see how it could become addicting. But like any addiction, requiring and stronger and stronger hit to create the same thrill.

    The DRZ was set way too soft when I got it. I had my mechanic stiffen it up a bit. Made a very noticeable difference.

    I think the KLX is currently too soft, for road at least. Maybe I will play with that first.

    I replaced the suspension on the Harley and that made a noticeable difference. Admittedly it just improved it from horrible to only really bad. But really bad is good enough for that bike.... hahahaha....
    Last edited by Sorg67; 11-13-2017 at 11:51 AM.

  4. #124
    The Versys has a plenty good enough suspension for spirited road riding. I would get out the manual and set it for it's factory settings and go from there. You need to be aware that factory settings are generally for a 170-180 lb. rider ... which by good fortune I happen to be. If you are a bit heavier a small increase in pre-load might be in order. Then as you think you are figuring out how to make it better adjust one thing at a time ... and ride more. The truth is there will be no suspension settings that work perfect everywhere ... when I hit the God-awful interstates in SC I am grateful for damping adjustment on the fly my GS offers ...

    Just be aware a really good suspension can cost a lot ...( On my SV650 the factory springs were too light for track use and under-damped. I installed heavier springs and cartridge emulators up front and a Penske shock in the rear. But that was for track use ... I would have made do if I was only using the bike on the street.)

    And frankly ... most of the expensive suspension replacements I've seen are pearls before swine. The proud new owner isn't capable of riding anywhere near the limit of the stock suspension he just replaced. And I've only once heard a valid explanation of what was wrong with the stock suspension other than a rather vague "it just didn't feel as good" ...

    Trackriders/racers are the exception. But they can tell you exactly what was wrong with their stock suspenders ...

    Just begin noticing your suspension when you ride. The easiest to figure out are the extremes ... like my aforementioned PC800. Another was a friend's Nighthawk 750. When he would brake hard the forks would slam to the bottom. He put in stronger springs and used the next higher number viscosity fork oil and was amazed at how much better it felt ... and he loved the bikes handling ... until he rode my VFR800 ...
    The best thing you can buy for your motorcycle is gas.

  5. #125
    Flirting With The Redline 1000 Posts! Sorg67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,872
    I am about 5 10 165 so stock settings are probably good enough. I have a top case on it. Not sure how much difference that makes.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorg67 View Post
    I am about 5 10 165 so stock settings are probably good enough. I have a top case on it. Not sure how much difference that makes.
    So geared up your weight is perfect for stock suspension and settings ...

    When I tour I load my heavy stuff in sidecases and light stuff in the topcase ... but. I have gone around a racetrack on a Gixxer 1000 riding behind a pro racer passing everyone in sight meaning a lot of really good amateur racers ... and I weigh considerably more than you are ever likely to stuff in a topcase ...

    ... and I have ridden at a pretty good pace on roads like Beartooth Hwy with sidecases and topcase loaded for 2 -up camping and a photographer riding pillon ... Now admittedly a motorcycle feels better when unladen ... but given street speeds .. a topcase isn't going to make much difference.

    Ride on ...
    The best thing you can buy for your motorcycle is gas.

  7. #127
    Flirting With The Redline 1000 Posts! liberpolly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,325
    I think Ninja 250 is a high-performance bike. I felt like Rossi when it's sceaming near readline at full tilt taking a sharp turn at 38 mph
    "The better you're prepared, the luckier you get".

  8. #128
    Flirting With The Redline 1000 Posts! liberpolly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,325
    Speaking of suspension problem, my Ducati came from the factory with front springs for a rider half my weight, nobody is sure why Ducati made this choice. Adding new springs calibrated for my weight and Andreani innards has done wonders to the handling. Now it's fully adjustable from a reasonable starting point.
    "The better you're prepared, the luckier you get".

  9. #129
    Flirting With The Redline 1000 Posts! Sorg67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,872
    I read the owners manual section on adjusting the suspension on the Versys and looked at a couple youtube videos. It looks pretty easy. However, I have no complaints, it is probably stock and stock should be about right for me so I am thinking of leaving well enough alone on that bike for now and messing with the klx which feels soft to me and I have experienced some acceleration wobble. Prior owner of klx was 110 lb woman who taught a motorcycle maintenance class to good chance bike was adjusted to her.

  10. #130
    Miles of smiles We've stopped counting... asp125's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    West siiide
    Posts
    28,229
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by liberpolly View Post
    I think Ninja 250 is a high-performance bike. I felt like Rossi when it's sceaming near readline at full tilt taking a sharp turn at 38 mph
    You betcha the Ninja250 is a performance bike, and this was not even 100%... more like my slow-ass 90%. 2:50 lap time, about 30secs off race winning pace.
    Last edited by asp125; 11-14-2017 at 05:09 PM.
    When life throws you curves, aim for the apex

    08 Spyder RS SM5 "big Bird" \ 12 S'TtripleR "stripper" \ 02 VFR800 "big red"
    Sold: 97 Ninja 500R / 03 SV650N / 01 Ducati 750SS / 73 CB350-Four / 03 BMWF650GS / 08 Gixxer600 / 09 KLX250S "Gumby" / 06 Thruxton "crumpet" / 91 VFR750 /03 Gixxer6 the bass boat
    my Facebook, SpeedShotsPhotography
    MITGC #22

    "I have seen fat kids on Segways go through corners faster."

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •