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Thread: High-Risk - Low-Risk

  1. #1

    High-Risk - Low-Risk

    Looking at this video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTqoSXXxK_M

    Got me think how I would rate my riding style -- High Risk, or Low risk? Having one crash too many I'm a defensive rider, but occasional I like to crank things up to near WOT just to see what my bike can do. That's rare, so I think I'm pretty Low risk. The kid in this video is just stupid and an At Risk rider, who's lucky to be alive. But it saw it as a wake up call for how things can go south if one doesn't ride with some level of skill and insight. Anyone ever decided to change how they ride based on a bad experience?

    - Wolf

  2. #2
    Flirting With The Redline 2000 Posts! AlwaysLearnin's Avatar
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    I think bad experiences, even if they're only a wake up call moment, lead to changes in the way someone rides. It's learning from your mistakes. You try not to make them, but who hasn't done something (I hesitate to say stupid, because it doesn't have to be something stupid) that ends up teaching you a lesson.

    This video shows how quickly things can go bad even on the smallest of bikes. The rider turned his head for a second or two and the car that was just a dot in the distance was suddenly a steel barrier in the middle of the road. Watch and learn from this kid's mistake!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lezbert View Post
    * Passhole -- Aggressive driver who stops at nothing just to get in front of you, saving him/herself a whopping 10 seconds.
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    Flirting With The Redline 2000 Posts! midknyte's Avatar
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    That was just distraction times stupidity. Speed and lackadaisical disregard for traffic got what it deserved.

    Now if you want to see something truly sad and disturbing, check out this poor guy's lack of understanding of counter steer as he actively and wrongly tries to avoid an accident.

    Luckily (?) he hits a fire truck full of first responders able to take care of him...

    Objects in mirror are dumber than they appear!

  4. #4
    I wonder if their explanation of counter steering is correct. I was taught push left to turn left, and push right to turn right. Their instructions seem contradictory.

    - Wolf

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by scooterwolf View Post
    I wonder if their explanation of counter steering is correct. I was taught push left to turn left, and push right to turn right. Their instructions seem contradictory.

    - Wolf
    Let's start with a tricycle. If you want to go left, you "steer" left ie. if you push on the right grip you go left. On a motorcycle, if you want to go left you take the same action as steering right on the tricycle ie. you "steer" right or push on the left grip. They are saying the same thing in the video ...

    Now ... if you get the opportunity to ride a sidecar rig ... guess what? You go back to tricycle steering (plus some other interesting dynamics).

    Scooters or at least all the ones I've ridden steer very quickly, that is "think" right ...go right.

    IMHO the primary cause of the first video accident was "failure to observe traffic" ... the kid just did not see the "bug" stopped in front of him. I actually think in the second one there are a couple of things going on.

    One is target fixation. Keith Codes "Narrowed Field of View (SR #3)" and "Fixed Attention (SR#4)".

    Two is failure to steer properly and I've seen this any number of times when the sh!t hits the fan. The rider can steer fine "normally" but not in a crisis. "Steering in the direction of the Fixed Attention (SR #5)" and "No Steering or ineffective Steering (SR #6)".

    The guy was doing ok ... then he hits some bumps coming out of a corner which upsets the bike a bit, sees the truck and simply rides right into it.

    Perhaps the guy was within his limits ... for that road ... if it didn't have bumps (which it did) and if it didn't have oncoming traffic appearing ... inconveniently.

    One of the reasons I'm an advocate of schools like Keith Codes. You are riding on a near perfect road with everyone going the same way and you advance one skill at a time ... with professional riders to give you feedback ...
    Last edited by OBX-RIDER; 03-29-2017 at 07:41 PM.
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  6. #6
    Flirting With The Redline 2000 Posts! Sorg67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterwolf View Post
    I wonder if their explanation of counter steering is correct. I was taught push left to turn left, and push right to turn right. Their instructions seem contradictory.

    - Wolf
    They are not saying "push" left to turn right, they are saying "steer" left to turn right. You "steer" left by pushing right. That is where the term counter steer comes from - steer counter to the direction you want to go, but steering counter to the direction you want to go is pushing in the direction you want to go.

    It is a really interesting video to watch because you can really see vividly the dynamics of what is happening.

    But what you cannot see is the dynamics of what is going on in the rider's head. He was doing just fine until he saw the truck. Did he suddenly forget how to steer? Or did he go from letting his body do what it knows how to do to thinking too much.

    Riding a motorcycle is an athletic activity. Athletic activities are done best when you do not have to think about it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by midknyte View Post
    That was just distraction times stupidity. Speed and lackadaisical disregard for traffic got what it deserved.

    Now if you want to see something truly sad and disturbing, check out this poor guy's lack of understanding of counter steer as he actively and wrongly tries to avoid an accident.

    Luckily (?) he hits a fire truck full of first responders able to take care of him...

    (video snipped)
    I've seen this video before. Am I the only one who thinks this is more a target fixation issue than a counter-steering issue?
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  8. #8
    Flirting With The Redline 2000 Posts! Sorg67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lezbert View Post
    I've seen this video before. Am I the only one who thinks this is more a target fixation issue than a counter-steering issue?
    Whether it is target fixation or counter-steering is impossible to determine without getting into his head. But it does show the dynamics of failing to steer effectively very well.

    I guess if we assume that his camera was pointed where he was looking would be evidence that target fixation caused him to fail to steer effectively. Since the picture looks right at the truck.

  9. #9
    Flirting With The Redline 2000 Posts! Sorg67's Avatar
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    It also looks to me like there was a motorcycle ahead of him and that he down shifted and accelerated, perhaps to catch up to the other motorcycle. Then came into this curve at a higher speed and perhaps the corner was a little tighter than he was expecting so he got out of his comfort zone for cornering.

    In both of these videos, the riders were going faster than they should have for the circumstances and their skill level. In the second video, the accident could have been avoided with better skills, but it could probably also have been avoided by riding at a slower speed.

  10. #10
    If he has a helmet cam, you can absolutely tell where he's looking. Find yourself a closed course and see if you can effectively steer away from something you're looking directly at. There's a reason why the "Slow, Look, Lean, Roll" lesson of turning ranks "Look" so high. When I was a beginner rider, I got myself out of two hairy situations by simply turning my head away from the horrible thing I was about to hit in the middle of a turn, leaning, and rolling on the throttle. They weren't pretty turns, but I didn't hit the curbs I was initially aimed at.

    Whether the riders were going faster than their skill levels is an unknown variable. However, IIRC from my initial view of the video, the speedo readout does not show an excessive rate of speed. It looks to me like the guy slowed when he downshifted (that's how I take curves), saw the truck, was surprised by the truck, and never looked away from the truck. Also you can see him release the throttle, which caused the bike to straighten out. In short, this guy did not Look, Lean, or Roll. So, it may not be that he failed to counter steer. The guy flat-out failed, on *75%* of the requirements, to...you know...turn.
    Last edited by Lezbert; 03-30-2017 at 02:44 PM.
    '02 Shadow Spirit 750 - The R-Honda TRADED IN
    '07 BMW F800 ST - Eyegor TRADED IN
    '17 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT - Phantom

    "I own a Goldwing...when I get cold, I just turn on the autopilot and go downstairs and sit in front of the fireplace and drink hot chocolate. The bike beeps to let me know when we're starting our final approach." -- shonuff

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