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Shadow Shack
09-30-2006, 05:13 PM
Honda did it again, they slaughtered another good bike.

The 21" front wheel was a plus, and the restyled seat looks good, but the VTX C style rear fender and the VLX side covers don't mesh well with it. To top it off, they Aero'd it by removing a carb and hindering it further with the power robbing shaft drive, and bumped up compression a few points as if that's supposed to compensate. Looks like it recieved the Aero engine, frame, and swignarm and then triued to make it look like the SS750. Apparently Honda wasn't content that the VLX was their slowest V2 cruiser when they drummed up these designs, so it's good news to the 99+ VLX owners LOL

Folks on one of the Delphi SS750 forums have badged it the "Spaero". Everyone at the VLX forum is looking forward to the next model revamps if it happens, personally I'm cringing on the thought now and hoping they leave it (and the Rebel) alone.

http://motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/md+2007_honda_spirit_750_blue+right_rear.jpg

http://motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/md+2007_Honda_Spirit_750_red+right.jpg

debVLX
09-30-2006, 05:29 PM
I'm hanging on to my 1988 VLX thankyou :D

HotFix
09-30-2006, 08:03 PM
a shaft on a 750? That blows. :(
I may have the inside track on a 2002 Spirit with only 2.5K miles. I'm hoping the seller can't find a buyer and I can pick it up for $3K.

I know I should have outgrown these small cruisers, but I think the Spirit looks great. Maybe a little too much like a HD Sportie, but still looks good.

Lezbert
09-30-2006, 08:26 PM
a shaft on a 750? That blows. :(
I may have the inside track on a 2002 Spirit with only 2.5K miles. I'm hoping the seller can't find a buyer and I can pick it up for $3K.

I know I should have outgrown these small cruisers, but I think the Spirit looks great. Maybe a little too much like a HD Sportie, but still looks good.

Technically, the Spirit 750 is a mid-size cruiser. ;) Let me say this about the 02 Spirit 750: It's awesome! Aside from looking good, it's got plenty of "umph." Even when I'm two up with luggage, she can still take off well and even manage the power to pass on the interstate. She's nimble in town, and she even likes the twisties. I think you'll like it.

I cannot believe Honda's altered it in a way to rob it of power! One of the reasons I chose the Spirit over the A.C.E. was the fact that reviews stated that the Spirit's engine was a little more powerful.

I'm not sure I like the new styling, to be honest. Even though I rather like the styling of the VTX, it doesn't seem like a logical fit for the Spirit 750. To be fair, though, I will say the change in tailight is nice. With that said, the cosmetic changes I WISH Honda would make to the Spirit 750 would be to relocate the rear signals and even incorporate the Aero/A.C.E. exhaust to allow for larger saddlebags.

Wookie
09-30-2006, 09:25 PM
Personally,

I like it. Had the Spirit 750 been shaft drive two years ago, I would have purchased it over my Aero 750. In fact that was the final decision for me, shaft or chain drive. I chose less maintanence.

Of course, personally I'd rather have belt drive, but that's a different story.

Bobthearch
09-30-2006, 10:56 PM
What year are the changes coming? At the Honda website the '07 model looks just like the '06...

I have no opinion about the mechanical changes, but I think the new version looks good! Definitely an improvement over the current model. Front wheel looks better, seat looks better, tail lights look way better, and exhaust looks better. I also prefer the teardrop side cover. And that blue color looks great! - the red isn't bad either.


a shaft on a 750? That blows.
I don't get that. I think the majority of midsize cruiser shoppers prefer shaft drive. All of the motorcycles I seriously considered were shaft drive - Aero, Volusia, V-Star.

-Bob

prester_john
10-01-2006, 01:45 AM
Fun fact: the 50cc Yamahopper moped had a shaft drive!

Tom

HotFix
10-01-2006, 07:56 AM
Technically, the Spirit 750 is a mid-size cruiser. ;)
I think anything less than 1100cc is a small cruiser. 1100 - 1400 to be mid size (what I have) and then they go up to 1800cc (110"). That is just my honest opinion.

I guess we could use Sturge’s rule to statistically quantify the number of classes and what the ranges are, but that sounds like work and may disprove my gut feeling. :)



Anyway, back to this little guy, the fender looks more like the one on the VTX 1800F. The C fender comes down a bit more and the brake light is on the fender.

Shadow Shack
10-01-2006, 12:29 PM
One of the reasons I chose the Spirit over the A.C.E. was the fact that reviews stated that the Spirit's engine was a little more powerful.

It's the same engine, the only difference is the gearing. As a result the Spirit has more low end get up and go power but the ACE shines more at the upper end of the powerband.



What year are the changes coming? At the Honda website the '07 model looks just like the '06...

It's slated as a mid-season release, they'll still be offering some ½ year 07 models that are the true blue deal.


a shaft on a 750? That blows.

I don't get that. I think the majority of midsize cruiser shoppers prefer shaft drive.

Until they sample the same engine with a chain drive and discover the gobs of power that lurk within the stock set up. Go test ride a pre-Boulevard Marauder, it's the same engine you have in the Volusia albiet with a chain drive. Or anyone with a 750 Aero should try on a 750 ACE, same engine again with a chain. Fact is a shaft, while being very low on the maintnance spectrum, is a highly inefficient delivery for a longitudinally mounted engine. The two right angle connectors can rob upwards of 25% of the power to the rear wheel by the time it gets delivered to where it's supposed to go. And lest we forget, in addition to robbing power a shaft drive adds more weight (I'll touch on that in a bit*). There's more than one reason that sportbikes use chain drives. In the case of a BMW or Gold Wing, the shaft is more efficient as the power is transferred in a parallel motion, with the driveshaft being in the same axis as the crankshaft. Can't get that efficiency when your crank travels east-west on the bike and the power needs to go north-south...the sprockets rotate on the parallel axis as the crank in that case and the chain is much more efficient. Result? More rear wheel power, more get up and go.

Basic rule of hot rodding: more power and less weight (*here I am touching on that). Look at the history of the 1500 Vulcan, the original A model was a torquey beast with dual carbs and the same weight as an 1100 Shadow. Despite the shaft drive it was still a hot rod, able to topple anything in that day's cruiserdom with a V-twin. Kawi answered the 1100 ACE with their own valance fendered rendition of the 1500, but added 140 pounds of heft in the process and did the unthinkable: removed one of the carburetors. Result? The 800 Vulcan was a faster bike at half the displacement. Why? The chain drive of the 800 allowed 47 ponies to hit the ground running compared to the revamped single carb 1500's 51HP to the ground, and all that extra weight slows it down more between the two. Kawi gave something back to the riding public by adding FI to the 1500 later on (bumping power to 55 tothe ground), but in the end the old A model with 60 ponies to the ground and far less weight will wipe the floor with any modern rendition 1500 or 1600 Vulcan and no doubt could hold its own against the big 2000 well enough in a straight line. I know of a guy that converted a FI 1500 over to chain drive, the stock motor pumped out almost 80HP to the ground when it was done. That's a big difference in power for a stock motor, the only other way to get that kind of a gain is to tear the motor down for high compression pistons and a hotter cam, something modern Vulcan owners spend small fortunes on to get the same results that could be coming straight from the factory if the bike came with a chain drive.

Bobthearch
10-01-2006, 10:30 PM
I knew there was a power loss. Still, I think most shoppers in that market segment prefer shaft. I'm sure Honda studied that before making the change.

I am suprised the new Honda isn't fuel injected... The other 3 of the Big 4 have all been making the transition with their 'new' models over the last two years - C50, Vulcan 900, and V-Star 1300 for instance. What is Honda waiting for?

-Bob

Shadow Shack
10-02-2006, 05:25 PM
I knew there was a power loss. Still, I think most shoppers in that market segment prefer shaft. I'm sure Honda studied that before making the change.

Possibly so. Ultimately a shopper needs to choose between peformance and ease of maintenance. Personally maintenance shouldn't even be an issue, even though a chain needs a lubrication every 500 miles it takes less time for me to do that than it does to fill my gas tank. If a person can't be bothered by that, they really have no business buying a motorcycle to begin with because there are far more complicated and time consuming maintennace issues that are periodically required of any bike. Sure, there are other issues between both drives, but those are the most commonly referred to ones.


I am suprised the new Honda isn't fuel injected... The other 3 of the Big 4 have all been making the transition with their 'new' models over the last two years - C50, Vulcan 900, and V-Star 1300 for instance. What is Honda waiting for?

I wish I knew, but I'll take a stab and say they're waiting for everyone else to do it first, which has pretty much been their marketing strategy ever since the VTX came out.

J_Raud
10-02-2006, 07:39 PM
I think anything less than 1100cc is a small cruiser. 1100 - 1400 to be mid size (what I have) and then they go up to 1800cc (110"). That is just my honest opinion.

Wait, maybe it's just because under this definition, I ride a "small" bike, but I don't agree with this. Cruisers actually go up to 2300cc now, and I remember a few years ago when people were saying that "1800" was big. A Valkyrie (1500cc) is now borderline midsized? Older Goldwings are midsized? An Electraglide Ultraclassic is just slightly over midsized? I know Americans as a whole keep getting "bigger," but just because the upper end of cc's keeps going up doesn't make bikes that were large before any smaller to people. That's like saying that just because there are Ninja ZX14's that a GSXR1000 or an Intercepter (800) is only "midpowered." No, they still have a lot of power, just like a 750 is still a big bike.

I can't wait until Valkyries are "great little starter bikes" and 750's are "mopeds not worth starting on unless you're a ten year old girl," because that's where we're headed.

(Note: yes, I realize the logic that if there are three bikes of 750cc, 1100cc, and 1800cc, the 1100 is in the middle of these two, being "medium." But this is also how stuff like serving sizes of fastfood kept creeping up, while still being called "small." People keep wanting more for their money without realizing the affect this is having on our perception, and motor companies and fast food and everything else realize this, so they try to take advantage of it to stay competitive. 750cc used to be a LARGE bike that you would probably not start on. Now, they're the bike people tell their daughters to start on. These bikes haven't gotten any smaller or less powerful just because now there are bigger and more powerful ones.)

subvetSSN606
10-02-2006, 08:12 PM
Actually the fast food places no longer have "small." Just Medium, Large, and Extra-Large!!??

Maybe bike manufacturers should do the same...

"I'd like to see your small bikes."
"I'm sorry sir, we don't have small bikes. Only Medium, Large, Extra-Large, and our new Super-Duper-Absurdo-Grande!" ;)

Tom

PerrydaSavage
10-03-2006, 07:01 AM
Personally I like what Honda has done with the 750 Spirit for '07 ... IMHO they have freshened the styling and with the shaft drive, thay have given what the customer seemingly wants ... though I think a belt drive would've been much nicer ... speaking of which, Kawi has introduced a new 900 Vulcan Custom for '07 that features fuel injection, billet aluminum wheels (a 21" on front), belt drive and styling similar to that of the new Spirit with a bit of Victory/HD thrown in! This one should be a good seller for Kawasaki!

Mer
10-03-2006, 07:15 AM
I really like the new look! As a person who started on a chain driven bike I am very happy to see the shaft drive on this one.

prester_john
10-03-2006, 08:25 AM
I am suprised the new Honda isn't fuel injected... The other 3 of the Big 4 have all been making the transition with their 'new' models over the last two years - C50, Vulcan 900, and V-Star 1300...
...Harley's 2007 Sportster, priced competitively with this smaller displacement Honda...and even the new Yamaha C3, a 50cc scooter. Baffling that a new 2007 model 750cc cruiser would still be spec'd with a carb. American Honda is the most inscrutable player in the business.

Tom

Lezbert
10-03-2006, 09:45 AM
I knew there was a power loss. Still, I think most shoppers in that market segment prefer shaft. I'm sure Honda studied that before making the change.

I am suprised the new Honda isn't fuel injected... The other 3 of the Big 4 have all been making the transition with their 'new' models over the last two years - C50, Vulcan 900, and V-Star 1300 for instance. What is Honda waiting for?

-Bob

Personally speaking, I would rather have the chain (and its associated maintenance) and keep the power. I like the low-end power mine provides. I've relied on it plenty of times as I've driven in town. I don't find that it's anemic on the interstate unless I am attempting to pass while going uphill, and that rarely happens. It gets up to interstate speed just fine and in plenty of time. With that said, if I was shopping for my first bike now, I probably wouldn't care one way or the other. I'd most likely still think about comfort and reliability. So, all in all, I don't think they'll lose money on this change.

Dr Teatime
10-03-2006, 12:43 PM
I prefer the look of the "old" Spirit. I really liked the drag style bar. Ya know, they could
have just slapped a belt on the old bike.

I'm really distressed by the lack of smaller displacement bikes with belt drive. Kawasaki pioneered a lot of the belt drive stuff and they won't even put one on the LTD 500. In case you couldn't tell, I'm a big fan of the belt. No goo on the mags, and very quiet.

Even with all the new bikes showing up, as far as features go, my perfect bike is still an
HD 883 Sportster. No valve adjustments, belt drive, and I can flat foot it. I'm 5'7 so this is an issue for me.

What I REALLY want: a 500-600cc street scrambler with trail bike bars, belt drive, and a long flat seat. An updated 350 Avenger would do it.

Shadow Shack
10-03-2006, 07:07 PM
Wait, maybe it's just because under this definition, I ride a "small" bike, but I don't agree with this. Cruisers actually go up to 2300cc now, and I remember a few years ago when people were saying that "1800" was big. A Valkyrie (1500cc) is now borderline midsized? Older Goldwings are midsized? An Electraglide Ultraclassic is just slightly over midsized? I know Americans as a whole keep getting "bigger," but just because the upper end of cc's keeps going up doesn't make bikes that were large before any smaller to people. That's like saying that just because there are Ninja ZX14's that a GSXR1000 or an Intercepter (800) is only "midpowered." No, they still have a lot of power, just like a 750 is still a big bike.

I can't wait until Valkyries are "great little starter bikes" and 750's are "mopeds not worth starting on unless you're a ten year old girl," because that's where we're headed.

(Note: yes, I realize the logic that if there are three bikes of 750cc, 1100cc, and 1800cc, the 1100 is in the middle of these two, being "medium." But this is also how stuff like serving sizes of fastfood kept creeping up, while still being called "small." People keep wanting more for their money without realizing the affect this is having on our perception, and motor companies and fast food and everything else realize this, so they try to take advantage of it to stay competitive. 750cc used to be a LARGE bike that you would probably not start on. Now, they're the bike people tell their daughters to start on. These bikes haven't gotten any smaller or less powerful just because now there are bigger and more powerful ones.)

I've said it before, bikes have evolved at the same geometric rate as humans are going in the opposite direction. I suppose in the same scenario, if the sport of boxing permitted 500 pound contenders, guys like Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield would be demoted to fly-weights.