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Broshat
04-12-2006, 04:19 AM
Hi Ya'll

So Im just about in my second week of riding. After work today I decided to take a ride around the lake . I wasn't going crazy, but I leaned and ended up dragging my kick stand on the ground, pushing me back up and straight. [was a little shookin' up] Anyway, coming back around I started playing with the counter steering technique, which I only half learned in the MSF course. It seemed that the the lean and turn had much more power and "tightness". My question is:

Do I keep my body above the bike, keeping the center of gravity straight down.
Or
As close to the Bike as possible, keeping my body aligned with the lean.

Of course being a n00b I sure there is some other answer. Im trying not to kill myself, maybe I need to slow down?

Mikey

911Radioman
04-12-2006, 05:07 AM
I just lean with the bike with the exception of tight radius turns, such as in a parking lot. Then I will counterweight the footpeg to carry out the full lock turn.

mudarra
04-12-2006, 06:08 AM
Since you are dragging hard parts, move your upper body towards the inside rearview mirror in the direction of the turn. Just a slight upper body lean into the turn will help the bike turn and reduce your lean angle for a given speed/radius.

Being new to riding, you may be subconsiously leaning away from the turn. This is a bad habit that all new riders do at first. It causes the bike to use more lean angle, and may also explain why you are dragging hard parts.

Also make sure you are keeping your head up and looking through the turn. Looking down or just a short distance in front of the bike, will cause you to turn early, forcing you to take a bad line through the turn, and requiring a harder lean on the last part of the curve.
Eyes up, look ahead and keep practicing the slow-look-lean-roll technique taught in the MSF.

LoDownSinner
04-12-2006, 06:23 AM
Yep. What Larry says.

You want to at least have a straight line from the wheels up through your head, if not have your body to the inside of the turn.

It's easy to feel like you're leaning too much. It might be a good idea to have someone observe your technique as you practice, or even snap a few digital pics so you can see if it looks the same wa it fieels. Hint: it's going to feel like you're heeled over like a MotoGP racer with your inside knee hovering just above the pavement when you've got a lot oflean angle to go.

MikeInSLC
04-12-2006, 07:40 AM
If what you dragged was really your kickstand, also make sure that it is retracting into its normal place properly...most bikes store the kickstand up "high and tight" enough that several other things should touch down first.

+1 to what they said...no leaning out of the turn...i.e. being "crossed up" ...

MotoMan
04-12-2006, 09:22 AM
+1 to all of the above. Lean your upper body into the turn. Pretend like you're trying to kiss your mirror.

BUT, keep your weight off the handle bars while doing this. You might have a tendency to lean onto the bars as you're leaning. You want as little weight on the bars as possible, otherwise you'll interfere with the overall natural stability of the bike. Support your weight by squeezing your legs into the tank and using your lower back.

That's all there is to it. ;-)

aprilmaybe
04-12-2006, 09:23 AM
Chances are you can always lean more.

Since you are in LA, Keep an eye on this site....
http://www.skillzdays.com/

The site is new but he has been running parking lot practices for a while. It has been massively beneficial to my riding.

MotoMan
04-12-2006, 10:01 AM
Thanks for that link April. Looks worthwhile.

Broshat
04-12-2006, 12:30 PM
Sweet,
Yeah I was trying to lean the bike and shift my weight opposite the turn this morning. Doesnt work well at all, the bike popped back up straight, right in the middle of a turn. I will definitely be kissing the inside mirror from this point on. Thanks for all the suggestions. Since I started riding, I sit in my office staring out the window all day. Not gettting much done, just clock watching waiting to get back on my bike.
Mikey
82' 750 sabre

mudarra
04-12-2006, 01:00 PM
Since I started riding, I sit in my office staring out the window all day. Not gettting much done, just clock watching waiting to get back on my bike.



+100 :thumbsup:

Logan
04-12-2006, 01:10 PM
Hi Ya'll



Do I keep my body above the bike, keeping the center of gravity straight down.
Or
As close to the Bike as possible, keeping my body aligned with the lean.

Of course being a n00b I sure there is some other answer. Im trying not to kill myself, maybe I need to slow down?



New Rider?

Don't introduce any artificial lean, don't try to kiss the mirrors, etc.

Keep your body in alignment with the bike. I.e. if we were behind you and took a picture, a straight line extending up from your tires would extend straight up your spine. You DO tilt your head to keep your eyes in horizontal alignment with the horizon.

And as others said, make sure that stand is retracted fully...and probably slow down till you gain more experience.

Clair
04-12-2006, 02:15 PM
+1 to all the above.

It'll feel somewhat counter intuitive ... like "why the hell do I want to lean over, get closer to the pavement, NO WAY!" ... but that's what you do. You stay with the bike. So, when you're going into a turn and you lean, your body stays with it. As LDS said, your body should be inline with your tires.

One note ... not only do you want to work on looking THROUGH the turn, but on keeping your eyes parallel to the ground. What I mean here is that, although your body is leaning with the bike, you tilt your head so your eyes remain level. SO, if you're making a left turn, you lean left, body is leaning left, but your head is tilted slightly to the RIGHT, thus keeping it UP.

So, body inline with the tires, eyes parallel to the ground.

Broshat
04-12-2006, 02:43 PM
Thats solid advice. Now I must put it to practice by making some excuse to leave work in the middle of the day.

LoDownSinner
04-12-2006, 03:17 PM
So, body inline with the tires, eyes parallel to the ground.
Kinda like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/lodownsinner/WERA/Talladega%20Feb%2006/Friday/IMG_3288.jpg

Mugster
04-12-2006, 09:47 PM
Technique aside, if you are rubbing any hard parts, you should probably slow up a bit until you have a few miles. Its pretty easy to panic at high speed and pull some serious dumbass until you have a few years of progressivly upping the cornering speeds.

mudarra
04-12-2006, 10:04 PM
Kinda like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/lodownsinner/WERA/Talladega%20Feb%2006/Friday/IMG_3288.jpg


One good pic deserves another!
http://mudarra.smugmug.com/photos/36288014-M.jpg

Cinder
04-12-2006, 10:10 PM
Great pics guys!

LoDownSinner
04-12-2006, 10:24 PM
Larry,

I want that ZZR of yours bad, but there's no way I'd keep my license if I had a street-legal sport bike faster than the Ninja...

Excellent head turn by the way!:thumbsup:

subvetSSN606
04-12-2006, 10:37 PM
Where's my "do-dee-doh... I'm a laid back cruiser rider" pic?

Ah... there we go...

http://www.beginnerbikers.org/gallery/files/4/10.jpg

Even my passenger has a good head turn! ;) :mrgreen:

Tom

mudarra
04-13-2006, 05:34 AM
Larry,

I want that ZZR of yours bad, but there's no way I'd keep my license if I had a street-legal sport bike faster than the Ninja...

Excellent head turn by the way!:thumbsup:


That's one of them there Dragon head turns. :lol2:

The ZZR is a fun bike.
I can't wait to get the 919 up to deals gap. The freakin low-end on this thing is incredible!

anthony
04-14-2006, 11:58 AM
Bring out your Gap pics! Not quite straight up and down, got a little inside lean going on...

http://homepage.mac.com/anthony/.Pictures/gap1.jpg

Missy B
04-15-2006, 12:30 PM
Girls have head turns too. :mrgreen:

http://www.blairlair.net/images/rides/mtlemmon/meaction1.JPG

Broshat
04-16-2006, 02:31 AM
So awesome. I did leave work that day in the middle of the day for 2 hours to practice my counter steering. No one said anything. The next day I took a 3 hour ride thru every canyon in LA all the way to Malibu. I kept thinking about everyones suggestions. Seems I was too caught up looking at the ground quality in front of me to keep my head up and make a nice line. Also, and im ashamed to say, I was running 10psi in both tires. According to my god father I could have killed myself. Im trying to be a safe rider, guess I should have read that post a few weeks ago on tire pressure.

Thanks so much for the solid advice.

911Radioman
04-16-2006, 02:49 AM
Two words... Pre-ride inspection. To me it is more important than the gear to have a safe bike to ride on.

Broshat
04-16-2006, 03:11 AM
:oops:

What can I say. I should know better, I drive old cars.

subvetSSN606
04-16-2006, 08:31 PM
Glad you learned something... or perhaps rather got reminded of something.

Now for another one...

Focussing on any one aspect is bad.
Now that you've experienced the difference of looking further ahead and through the turn, that does not mean you should ignore the quality of the road surface! There's a balance that will come with practice and experience that will have you generally looking ahead and through the turn, but you still use a combination of peripheral vision and occasional glances to check on other things.

Tom

mherlee
04-17-2006, 08:28 PM
Chances are you can always lean more.

Since you are in LA, Keep an eye on this site....
http://www.skillzdays.com/

The site is new but he has been running parking lot practices for a while. It has been massively beneficial to my riding.

Thank you thank you! I was taking a look at the site and it is exactly what I need to help build my confidence! If I get out there I will post and let people know about it.

MotoMan
04-17-2006, 09:42 PM
mherlee I am planning on going this Sunday. What about you?

mherlee
04-17-2006, 10:07 PM
I would love to but I have my Mom here from out of town and my bike is in the shop due to a <mumbles> accident I had last weekend in Malibu. I want to get back up on that dang horse but need to get her back in one piece first. I want some more cornering skill!! Took a turn wide and back tire slipped on some dirt. I was not at all confident that the bike was going to stay on the road so I righted her and tried to get her back on the proper course. Unfortunately I caught a rut in the edge of the road (all that darn rain I think) and couldn't pull it out. I ended up running right into a cement sewer cover thing and highsiding. I am fine but bruised and feeling lucky to be only bruised. Feeling very stupid and like I should have made different choices. Walking away from the accident makes me think I must have done something right at least, even if it was just wearing tons of gear. I really want to take this class and as soon as I am back on a bike more training is my goal. I am also reading "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough to try and get a grip on the whole scene. <sigh> so there is my dirty laundry :saaad:

MotoMan
04-18-2006, 11:46 AM
No worries. You live and learn. The good thing is you're alright. Bikes can be fixed.

And you're not alone. I still have trouble trusting the bike/tires in the turns. I'm deathly fearful of losing the front or back end and sliding into the side of, or off, a mountain, into an on-coming car, etc.

I know the bike's capabilities are much greater than I currently use. I think if I was more confident about lean angle and traction that I would be a much better rider. Even though I took the track school, trusting the bike on a track where conditions are pretty much ideal, versus trusting a bike on the street where they are far from ideal, are two totally different things in my book.

When you get everything situated we'll have to get a group together and head out there.