Gearing Questions

[nanite]

While riding my Ascot around, I've found that I've come to dislike the 20 or so hp drop from my last bike. First gear is completely gutless, I let out the clutch and it revs right up to the redline and only produces about 15 mph top speed.

I think that's pretty pathetic, because I can't beat cars off the line without taking the time to upshift VERY quickly to second. I've gotta replace my chain and sprockets soon, so I'm wondering if my bike is geared way too low or something?

It's got a 15 tooth front sprocket and a 42 tooth rear right now. While upping the front to a 16 tooth and decreasing the rear to a 36 tooth, would that widen the speed range for the gears, especially first, so it doesn't rev right up in one second and barely put out anything?

Also, my chain is supposedly 100 links, so how would these sprocket changes correlate to the correct size of a new chain? How many links should I go with 16/36?

Is it also possible to shorten the wheelbase by selecting a chain that's a couple links shorter than optimum?

Thanks for all the help guys.

[Mugster]

I think that's pretty pathetic, because I can't beat cars off the line without taking the time to upshift VERY quickly to second. I've gotta replace my chain and sprockets soon, so I'm wondering if my bike is geared way too low or something?


Why not just put it in second from the start and slip the clutch a little? Singles have alot of hit out of the hole. Properly jetted with a good rider, a 500 single is a beast on the street if you can keep the front wheel on the ground.




It's got a 15 tooth front sprocket and a 42 tooth rear right now. While upping the front to a 16 tooth and decreasing the rear to a 36 tooth, would that widen the speed range for the gears, especially first, so it doesn't rev right up in one second and barely put out anything?


Depends on what you want the bike to do. For performance you generally gear for the top speed you want at the redline, and live with the rest unless its really bothersome to you like in a particular situation. What you suggest is a rather large change. Your bike might not be able to pull a gear that big to the redline, although it might cruise fine at the reduced rpm. I'd prolly recommend you get a 16 for the front and try that first to see if it'll pull it/you like it. You might need a differing number of links, but chains come with 110 links i think it is, so its no big deal to add or subtract a link with a big gearing change.

Going with a 520 chain/sprocket combo on that bike will help alot more than on the larger hp sportbikes, imo, because its a fairly lightweight machine to begin with.




Is it also possible to shorten the wheelbase by selecting a chain that's a couple links shorter than optimum?



Depends on how much adjustment you have for the chain, but yeah, its possible to squeeze out a half to an inch or so playing games back there. It may or may not be worth it depending on what you are doing with the bike. Running offroad in tight trees i usually try to keep my rear wheel jammed against the forward stops if i can for the quickest handling i can get, as long as my tire doesn't rub. I don't think it helps much, but racing, you buy yourself every inch you can. Hopefully all those inches add up to a race win at some point. On the street, i could care less about where my rear wheel is situated as long as the chain is on there and roughly adjusted correctly.

[Zixxer10]

It's always a huge shock when I go from my VF 500 to the ZX-10R. There's about a 100 rear wheel HP difference. No way can I get my 500 to perform like my liter bike. Playing with gearing is always a trade off. You can gear for the quarter mile or gear for top speed but you can't make a Corvette out of a Hyundai with just gears. A little time on a ten speed bicycle would be a good educational experience.

[MarcS]

nanite -- is the problem power or low gearing? Increasing the gearing will reduce the butt-dyno power and increase the top speed of each gear (or lower RPMs for a given speed). Dropping gearing and learning how to shift faster will give you more power on the butt-dyno.

I could easily beat cars off the line on a Ninja 250, that's with ~25-30HP or so. And 15mph in first. On Kawiforums, there are guys talking about how the 636 can often easily beat the 'busa on the strip. The 636 isn't faster/more powerful, it's so much easier to do a good drag launch on the 636 than the more powerful bikes -- the bike isn't gonna flip when you give it too much.

[sanglant]

While riding my Ascot around, I've found that I've come to dislike the 20 or so hp drop from my last bike. First gear is completely gutless, I let out the clutch and it revs right up to the redline and only produces about 15 mph top speed.

I think that's pretty pathetic, because I can't beat cars off the line without taking the time to upshift VERY quickly to second. I've gotta replace my chain and sprockets soon, so I'm wondering if my bike is geared way too low or something?

It's got a 15 tooth front sprocket and a 42 tooth rear right now. While upping the front to a 16 tooth and decreasing the rear to a 36 tooth, would that widen the speed range for the gears, especially first, so it doesn't rev right up in one second and barely put out anything?

Also, my chain is supposedly 100 links, so how would these sprocket changes correlate to the correct size of a new chain? How many links should I go with 16/36?

Is it also possible to shorten the wheelbase by selecting a chain that's a couple links shorter than optimum?

Thanks for all the help guys.

It's basic math, just calculate the percentage change in gearing you're making and apply that to the rpm/mph.

As an example, if you top out a 20 mph in first gear and make a 5% change to a lower numerical ratio, you'll now top out at 24 mph. Do it with all your gears. Note though, that the bike has to have the power to pull the gearing up top. You could gear the bike to do 300 mph, but if it doesn't have the hp to push it through the wind, you'll never reach that speed.

For links, it looks like you could drop two links and be good. Personally, I'd order a 99 link and check, and then just lop off one of them if it was too long. That's a much better way to go than running two masterlinks to make it long enough. Yes, you can shorten the wheelbase slightly, but only within the range of the chain adjusters.

[nanite]

Why not just put it in second from the start and slip the clutch a little? Singles have alot of hit out of the hole. Properly jetted with a good rider, a 500 single is a beast on the street if you can keep the front wheel on the ground.

But doesn't this absolutely kill the clutch/drive by whacking it in second and slipping the clutch quickly off the line?


Going with a 520 chain/sprocket combo on that bike will help alot more than on the larger hp sportbikes, imo, because its a fairly lightweight machine to begin with.

Do you actually have to get a 520 sprocket or are you able to just get a 520 chain on 530 sprockets?

[MarcS]

nanite -- sure, any fast launch is gonna be bad for the clutch. You're the one complaining about not beating cars off the line, though! :)

[nanite]

Back with my CX500 there wasn't a need to rev it up and then dump the clutch from a stoplight. All you had to do was take off like normal until the clutch was all the way out and wind it out really quickly in first. It had an incredible surge of power in first that could catapult you up to 30 mph very, very quickly and second only got better.

I don't care about theoretical top speeds, whether the engine can pull to redline in top gear to produce triple digit speeds. What I'm looking for is a widening of gearing speeds, especially in first, so I don't have to run the engine out to redline and have to upshift before I've even reached the light from stop at an intersection. It sounds really, really embarassing in my mind.

Another thing that I'd really appreciate would be a reduced cruising RPM, especially around 55-65 where vibration is a hand killer. I couldn't wish more for a sixth gear! ;-)

I think I'm going to upgrade to a 16 tooth front sprocket and see where it goes from there, and maybe replace the back if I like what I feel. I'll get back to you guys with the results of this. Any answer about the 520 chain on 530 sprockets? Is that a no-no?

[MarcS]

Your chain and sprockets should match. 530 chains have bigger rollers than 520, but an identical pitch.

[Mugster]

But doesn't this absolutely kill the clutch/drive by whacking it in second and slipping the clutch quickly off the line?

Do you actually have to get a 520 sprocket or are you able to just get a 520 chain on 530 sprockets?

Absolutley kill it? no. Use up some clutch life faster? probably. If you try it a few times will you need a new clutch? Probably not, unless your clutch is already on the margin. I mean, you're clutch will go from new, to useable, to my clutch is sucking, to i gotta fix the damn thing. Its a sliding scale usually. You can kill a clutch if you heat it up enough though. So the thing is, slip it and then let it cool down a little before pounding on it again.

No, you need to match the chain size to both of the sprockets.

Probably what i'd do is take off your sprockets or ride your bike down to an aftermarket dealer with a parts unlimited catalog. See what they can find in sprockets of your pattern. Your bike is old enough that you may be limited in what you can get to fit on there, i dunno.