View Full Version : Anyone using Amsoil 10w-40 ?
After reading all the hype and comparisons, i'm switching to the Amsoil 10w-40 MCF. It's supposedly better than Mobil1 MX4T.
Is anyone here using it ?
sanglant
10-30-2005, 05:18 PM
After reading all the hype and comparisons, i'm switching to the Amsoil 10w-40 MCF. It's supposedly better than Mobil1 MX4T.
Is anyone here using it ?
I don't, but I know people that do and are happy with it.
Logan
10-30-2005, 06:52 PM
After reading all the hype and comparisons, i'm switching to the Amsoil 10w-40 MCF. It's supposedly better than Mobil1 MX4T.
Is anyone here using it ?
It's probably one of the best out there.
Especially if you are going for an extended change interval.
x_cuesme
10-30-2005, 08:49 PM
Will let you know shortly-
We're changing all of ours over to synthetic and going with Amsoil. I've heard so much good about it and now have a friend who swears synthetic made a world of difference in her bike- gotta try it!
kwr8728
10-30-2005, 10:42 PM
i personally run M1 Gold Cap in my bike, but someone i know uses it...and loves it. A user of the vfr forums does oil test and the like...says the M1 is the best and Amsoil is like second best...as for how much of a difference....probably not much. either way, i believe synthetic is the way to go for motorcycles...or most anything really!
TBeck2000
10-31-2005, 08:43 AM
I have Amsoil in my Savage at the moment. I have switched all of my vehicles over to synthetic motor oil except for my ancient Audi w/ 300k miles.
OK, the oil is now in the bike, and it's running superb. I was using synthetic blend. Now it's full synthetic all the way.
Amsoil is #1
Here's some proof.
http://www.texassynthetics.com/AMSOILGoesheadtoheadwithMobil1.html
MarcS
10-31-2005, 10:06 PM
Where are you guys getting it?
x_cuesme
10-31-2005, 10:24 PM
This link is a corporate online store-
http://www.amsoil.com
I was going to order from them, but H is pretty sure we have a local mechanic that carries it. Not sure about the oil filter, though-
Anyone using the filter, too, or just going with stock filter and the amsoil oil? I've heard their chain lube is superior too- so far I've been using the stock Honda line stuff and really don't have any complaints, tho'.
Slavik
11-01-2005, 09:33 AM
the trick to motorcycles longevity is changing oil often not what oil you use......get the cheapest oil from wall mart, change it every 2k and you will not have problems for a long time......I do use cheapest synthetic in mine though :)
MarcS
11-01-2005, 10:36 AM
Slavik -- there are UK motorcycle couriers who put hundreds of thousands of miles on engines who might disagree. Poor quality oil is just as bad as infrequent maintenance.
My preference is to go for the best oil I can get ahold of, and plan on extended change intervals.
A decent dino oil is probably better than a cheap syn. I'm using a good synthetic to protect my engine best I can. Putting the cheap stuff in defeats my goal. Blends can be up to 90% dino. The other 10% may be also hydrocarbon based, not real PAO.
Not sure really who to believe, but I went to my local bike shop Saturday and told the owner/Head mechanic I wanted to do an oil change on my 2004 Vulcan 800B and asked his suggestion on oil.
Now here was an opportunity for him to sell me $10/qt Synthetic, but he asked how I ride?, (mostly local wekend rides of under 2 hours) and how aggresive? ( It's a cruiser not a sport bike and I'm just north of 50 not 25yrs old), how many miles on the bike? 2,800 and how many miles a year do I ride? 2,000-2,500. So he pulled down some Yamaha 20W50 dino oil for $4.49/qt. and said "this will be fine for your needs".
I did the oil change on Sunday, and she feels great. So instead of $40+ filter on Synthetic , I spent $27 with a filter. So I'll do it again in another 2,000 miles.
I have to believe that in most circumstances dino oil will be fine for most riders bikes. I did decide to use a Moto-oil versus any auto oil ( just in case it makes a difference) and the cost difference was so minor, I figured since I wanted advise from a bike mechanic I'd get my oil from a bike shop.
Although I understand the concept of why take a chance, get the best, I hate buying something that I really don't need. (I don't use premium fuel if the manual says 87 is fine).
Less
MarcS
11-03-2005, 09:22 AM
$4.49/qt?!?! That's what I paid for Mobil 1 syn!?! (BTW, there's pretty much no difference between the MX4T and their other stuff, according to some samples someone ran on another board).
Paduan
11-03-2005, 09:58 AM
$4.49/qt?!?! That's what I paid for Mobil 1 syn!?! (BTW, there's pretty much no difference between the MX4T and their other stuff, according to some samples someone ran on another board).
I pay only $6 a quart for MX4T, all the way up here in Alaska.
It's good stuff, and as Marc says, is probably as good as anything else out there.
My personal opinion is that Amsoil is better only because they have put forth a lot more effort into the hype component.
MCVQT SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil: 1-quart bottle $8.35
This is off the Amisol website.
The cheapest I found Synthetic around here was about $8/qt. addn that wasn't for motorcycle oil. Moto/Synthetic at the local auto part cahin store was $10/qt. And I still don't think I need it.
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Slavik
11-04-2005, 05:12 PM
Slavik -- there are UK motorcycle couriers who put hundreds of thousands of miles on engines who might disagree. Poor quality oil is just as bad as infrequent maintenance.
My preference is to go for the best oil I can get ahold of, and plan on extended change intervals.
I've never seen any study done that involved bikes used for courier work and the use of motorcycle specific oil. Also hundreds of thousands of miles of the short trips in stop'n go traffic is extremely severe, i don't think that 99.9% of the riders here would see their bike making to even 100k.
I did see some studies that have not found one thing that makes the motorcycle specific oil superior to regular syntetic....also there were some studies done to show that the regular oil maintains most of it's properties after 2000 miles of use in a motorcycle. Also, define poor quality oil, where would i find some info on the good brands and bad brands? What makes an oil thats is .89/quart worse then 1.29/qt oil? Did anyone actually examine the "purity" of the "good stuff" or is more of a "butt dyno" results...they all meet the required standards, which says that they posses the minimum of the required properties
Also, i don't think any of the motorcycle manufacturers ever mention any motorcycle specific oil in their requirements neither.
do i think that $50/season is too much to pay for a peace of mind, no....but it's a waste nevertheless, that $50 are better spent on a tire upgrade.
MarcS
11-04-2005, 05:42 PM
Slavik -- for a start, the recycled oil you find in gas stations is typically extremely poor quality, and it's use will void the warranty in a lot of cars. Pretty much any name-brand oil with appropriate grade changed at recommended intervals will be OK for non-severe duty; it's when you start doing an hour of stop-and-go every day, hard riding, &c that the better stuff has an advantage. Modern oil suffers more from heat than it does from shear forces.
The study I read on breakdown didn't say that oil didn't break down, but that cycle-specific stuff broke down just as fast as regular stuff. Also, the British bike couriers aren't stop-and-go all day; it's more like pick up a package and drop it off 50 miles away.
Slavik
11-04-2005, 06:20 PM
Slavik -- for a start, the recycled oil you find in gas stations is typically extremely poor quality, and it's use will void the warranty in a lot of cars. Pretty much any name-brand oil with appropriate grade changed at recommended intervals will be OK for non-severe duty; it's when you start doing an hour of stop-and-go every day, hard riding, &c that the better stuff has an advantage. Modern oil suffers more from heat than it does from shear forces.
The study I read on breakdown didn't say that oil didn't break down, but that cycle-specific stuff broke down just as fast as regular stuff. Also, the British bike couriers aren't stop-and-go all day; it's more like pick up a package and drop it off 50 miles away.
as far as British couriers, I just assumed they are like bike couriers in Chicago, but every one knows when one assumes... :) But my point still stands, very few people put 200k on their bikes, and I've never seen one study that showed the benefit of using expensive motorcycle specific oil, or even high-price synthetic (mobil 1 ) vs lower price ones (rottela)
I have no clue about gas station recycled oil....when i say cheap i mean wallmart .88/qt cheap....if motorcycle oil breaks down as fast as regular oil, why pay $6/qt vs. $3/qt for car synthetic (like shell rottella)?.....
There numerous accounts of people using nothing but regular oil in their bikes and see no loss in compretion after tens of thousands of miles....so IMO if you don't mind wasting $50/year so be it, you are not hurting your bike in any way, but if you are the same person that didn't spend extra bucks on good gear helmet or bought cheap tires then it just rediculous in my mind....
Logan
11-05-2005, 02:31 AM
Slavik, there's plenty of evidence out there on the web that all oils are NOT created equal.
There's plenty of data out there on the web.
Wet clutch motorcycles produce shearing forces from the meshing the gears that can drastically shorten engine life.
Tests have shown that the cheap stuff can be useless well before 2,000 miles.
The difference lies in the additive packages.
Cold engine starts produce the most wear. If you drain the oil every 2k, then you are putting the engine through a dry start every 2,000 miles and exposing that fragile drain plug fitting to wear & tear. And you DO change the filter each time to get rid of the old crap don't you?
Synthetics provide some benefits for some, but probably not worth it unless one goes to an extended oil service schedule/
First you say puy the 88 cent crap oil, then you say Rotella T protects as well as motorcycle oil and you quote the $50 per season.
Why $50?
Even $8 oil will only come to <$25 for most bikes.
There are good auto oils out there, but not for 88cents. Castrol GTX, Quaker State Blended oils, Rotella T etc all go for <$3 per quart & will do a good job. BMW branded 10w50 was $3.18 per qt last time I bought it.
My oil changes are always well under $20, even with quality oil & a BMW oil filter kit. The Kawasaki, a lot less than that.
Do a search, view the previously quoted oil links & you'll find the facts. All oils are not the same.
Oh, BTW. Did youall know that Europeon oil is required to be manufatured to a much higher standard than it is here? Not of that sissy, resource wasting "every 3,000 miles for them.
The Amsoil dealer in Chalfont, Pa. is selling the Amsoil 10w-40 for 6.35 per qt.(AMF-QT)
That's still under 30.00 including the filter. And it can stay in there for 2-3 times longer than dino. The MCF-QT is the most expensive, but the dealer said I definitely don't need it. They're practically the same, and unless i'm racing, it's not necessary.(At least that's what he told me)
MarcS
11-05-2005, 09:05 AM
Slavik, there's plenty of evidence out there on the web that all oils are NOT created equal.
There's plenty of data out there on the web.
Wet clutch motorcycles produce shearing forces from the meshing the gears that can drastically shorten engine life.
Tests have shown that the cheap stuff can be useless well before 2,000 miles.
The difference lies in the additive packages.
Additive packages do matter, but the base oil makes just as much a difference. Particularly when you consider recycled oil -- your 10W40 is probably originally 20W50 that was run through a filter. It might have been mixed with new stuff or more additives, but then again, it might not have.
It's not just wet clutch motorcycles that produce shearing forces. Any motorcycle that lubes the transmission with the same oil as the engine overly stresses the oil compared to a bike or car with a seperate system. The clutch can dump heat into the oil from friction, and it can dump clutch fibers in, too, but the gears in the transmission do the "shearing" damage and that'll happen on dry clutch motorcycles. If you've got a Harley or BMW with seperate reservoirs, one for the tranny, one for the engine, though, you can go nuts with extended change intervals.
Cold engine starts produce the most wear. If you drain the oil every 2k, then you are putting the engine through a dry start every 2,000 miles and exposing that fragile drain plug fitting to wear & tear. And you DO change the filter each time to get rid of the old crap don't you?
When you change the oil, you're only changing what's left in the pan -- if you've just run the engine prior to changing the oil like recommended, you're still going to leave half a liter in the engine lubricating everything. If you change the filter, you might starve the engine very briefly, but you can solve that by filling the filter with oil before reinstalling it. Also consider that oil pressure in an engine builds VERY quickly. There's no reason that a normal oil change with a filter change has to be any worse than a normal warm start.
Oh, BTW. Did youall know that Europeon oil is required to be manufatured to a much higher standard than it is here? Not of that sissy, resource wasting "every 3,000 miles for them.
What makes you think that? Pretty much all motor oils come from a fixed set of base oils with a similar set of additives -- the European emissions control laws are rather in line with ours. The 3,000 mile thing is made up by the oil companies -- it's typically the (worldwide) recommendation for severe service -- ie, constant stop and go, extreme heat, dusty climates, &c. The average interval for a new car is something like 10,000-15,000 miles nowadays. Yet Jiffy Lube will still throw a 3,000 mile sticker on your car. It makes them more money.
Logan
11-05-2005, 12:54 PM
1. Additive packages do matter, but the base oil makes just as much a difference. Particularly when you consider recycled oil -- your 10W40 ...
2. It's not just wet clutch motorcycles that produce shearing forces. Any motorcycle that lubes the transmission with the same oil as the engine overly stresses the oil compared to a bike or car with a seperate system....
3. When you change the oil...you might starve the engine very briefly, but you can solve that by filling the filter with oil before reinstalling it. Also consider that oil pressure in an engine builds VERY quickly. There's no reason that a normal oil change with a filter change has to be any worse than a normal warm start.
4. What makes you think that? Pretty much all motor oils come from a fixed set of base oils with a similar set of additives -- the European emissions control laws are rather in line with ours.
1. My statements were based on the universally available new oil.
Where you get this "Your" recycled oil? I've never used recycled oil in my life, and I doubt most folks have. The only one mentioning it seems to be you.
2. That's exactly what the definition of what a wet clutch is. Clutch plates bathed in shared engine oil.
3. Yes you will starve the engine briefly, that's my point. Unless your oil filter has a 2 quart capacity, it's not going to add all that much into the engine. Plus filter design on many/most motorcycles preclude prefilling. Only works if it's a spin on type. What you are doing is describing a dry "cold-start" not a warm start. 50-80% of engine wear is typically due to coldstarts.
4. Oil standard ACEA A3. According to some, North American manufactures & importers had shorter service intervals on the NA models specifically due to the poorer engine oil quality. Only in the past few years have longer oil monitors allowed longer recommended intervals.
sanglant
11-05-2005, 01:16 PM
Logan, a Ducati shares engine and trans oil, but uses a dry clutch. The gears of the transmission are what causes shearing, not the clutch plates.
Carry on with the arguement! http://www.supersportbike.com/forums/html/emoticons/popcorn.gif
x_cuesme
11-05-2005, 03:44 PM
Are there instructions on pre-filling a spin on type oil filter anywhere?
I'm new to all this- oil and filter are in the garage and going to get changed as soon as I go run the bike around a bit- (have spin-on type)
sanglant
11-05-2005, 04:17 PM
Are there instructions on pre-filling a spin on type oil filter anywhere?
I'm new to all this- oil and filter are in the garage and going to get changed as soon as I go run the bike around a bit- (have spin-on type)
Pour the oil into it. It'll bubble and burp. When it stops, add more. Keep doing it till the oil level stops dropping. Also, have a rag handy to spin it on, so you can catch the spillage if it's a verticle mount filter.
x_cuesme
11-05-2005, 04:39 PM
Thanks Sanglant-
Going with the Amsoil. H is going to watch but I'm changing it this time. My ride- about time I learned how to do more than turn the key and make it 'go'-
x_cuesme
11-06-2005, 03:23 PM
Changed over to Amsoil last night- rode this morning and the bike seems to shift and accelerate more smoothly- It's not a night and day thing, but there's a definite difference.
Think I'm going to be happy with this. Now I need to figure out how to flush the coolant so I can change it to Engine Ice.
No, I'm not a high performance rider- but I do like biodegradable and I do have pets!
TBeck2000
11-07-2005, 08:39 AM
Changed over to Amsoil last night- rode this morning and the bike seems to shift and accelerate more smoothly- It's not a night and day thing, but there's a definite difference.The difference you feel is maybe just from the fresh oil. I feel the same thing as you even when I do not change brand or type of oil.
BTW, I didn't reply to your question earlier, but I am using the Amsoil oil and stock Suzuki filter in my bike. I didn't even know Amsoil made their own filters for motorcycles...
x_cuesme
11-07-2005, 07:04 PM
TBeck-
I agree- I always notice a difference with fresh oil. I'd just changed it 2K miles ago, so what I had in wasn't very dirty- but the bike had sat for the best part of 3 years (had 1600 miles on it) and I wanted to do a couple of quick ones instead of the usual interval.
Also have heard you shouldn't go synthetic until a bike is broken in well- 3K or so- and this one is just over 3700 so I figured we were ready.
I used the stock filter, too- Amsoil does make some but it's not like I'm doing anything high performance on my VLX, so I'm fine with stock. Thanks though!
"Seems" is the word- she seems to run smoother over 65mph than she did before. Like it's not as much effort to stay there. But again- it's slight, not dramatic. Could be my imagination! :smile:
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