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Mugster
10-23-2005, 02:15 PM
Figured i'd post this because this is the time of year i start going to the gap regularly. Cooler weather, not so many squids, most of the rookies on 600's have crashed out already. Also, as a disclaimer. I don't endorse foolish riding on public roads. It up to the individual to determine if this guy is out of control.

Anyway, he's got some footage of a pretty fast gap pass handling cars and such, and gets stuck behind a rider that shows what not to do up on the 'the hill'. I think the message is stay within your ability, because its pretty obvious to everyone when you are riding over your head. And get out of the way when faster people come up behind you...its more dangerous for everyone invlolved if you try to speed up. He's on an FZ1, btw. Clicking the below link takes you to the video page. He's got some comments well worth reading before you view the film:

http://www.gormanonline.com/forums/5/ShowPost.aspx

All of his footage is pretty darn good, lots of racetrack passes. Some good comments to read also.

http://www.gormanonline.com/forums/

MotoMan
10-23-2005, 02:40 PM
Well, I've heard a lot of horror stories about The Gap, but those twisties look like a helluva lot of fun. Much cleaner than the canyon stuff out here around Malibu. I didn't see any true blind turns, although there may be some that exist.

But what about those idiots cagers using both lanes. The wheel turns, don't they know?

Mugster
10-23-2005, 03:01 PM
Depends on when you run it. When the leaves are off the trees you get petty good vision in some spots, particularly when the road doubles back on itself to the right and you can look across a ravine. In the summer, i'd say, yeah theres alot of blind or semi blind stuff where mebbe you can see a turn up but not the turn you are in. Camera footage always makes stuff seem less tight than it is, and you just do not see the elevation change.

I just poked around on this guys site a little more. Pretty interesting riding resume can be found here:

http://www.gormanonline.com/forums/49/ShowPost.aspx

SoCal LabRat
10-23-2005, 03:53 PM
The guy can ride. My problem is that he's doing wheelies, passing in double yellow, and passing other bikers in their lane space. It's riding with guys like that behind me that freaks me about about riding Deal's Gap. He won't make me ride faster than I can handle, but he sure has hell will ruin my good time.

And if he passes me in my lane, I'll rip him a new one when I finally make it to the finish...

sanglant
10-23-2005, 04:36 PM
The guy can ride. My problem is that he's doing wheelies, passing in double yellow, and passing other bikers in their lane space. It's riding with guys like that behind me that freaks me about about riding Deal's Gap. He won't make me ride faster than I can handle, but he sure has hell will ruin my good time.

And if he passes me in my lane, I'll rip him a new one when I finally make it to the finish...


lol! Gorman is a former bud of mine, an FBR, and a past CCS regional champioin. He'd be around you so fast you wouldn't have time to freaked out.

If he still has the night ride up, check it out. He also does a lap of Barber, on this same FZ1, in less than a minute fifty. That's a fast lap, especially for a street bike.

Mugster
10-23-2005, 04:50 PM
Yeah, he's got way mad asphalt skillz.

Alot depends on your perception. To me he exercised quite a bit of restraint on the wobbler pass. Some guys i know would not have been quite so friendly.

MarcS
10-23-2005, 05:44 PM
Gorman was also selected as one of the first guys to get a test ride on the K1200S and put on the Nurburgring. He did some nice laps, there, too, and really did the bike justice (some nice vids of it are on the net, maybe his site).

x_cuesme
10-23-2005, 06:57 PM
Don't think anyone is disputing the skill level of the rider- I know I'm not.

When I watched the film right after the link was posted- and didn't comment for this reason-

My thoughts were: "Yeah, the guy he filmed shouldn't be attempting what he's attempting- obviously doesn't have the skill to do it. But that's a hard lesson to take seriously from someone speeding, stunting, illegally passing, etc., while they comment on someone else's mistakes."

I don't care who he is or how good he is- illegal is illegal, discourteous is discourteous, and stuning doesn't belong on a public road. Same rules apply to all- and I've heard all of that expressed many times on this forum before!

remy_marathe
10-24-2005, 01:44 AM
Watching that guy (the one in over his head) leaning his body the wrong way, starting curves on the inside, and completely wandering into the other lane was just plain painful.

I noticed Gorman rolled on the throttle after he was well into a few of the curves; later than I would've expected. It made me wonder- is the ideal time to start rolling on when you've reached the bottom of your lean, or should one start rolling on as soon as the lean is initiated?

Jack_R1
10-24-2005, 05:12 AM
My thoughts were: "Yeah, the guy he filmed shouldn't be attempting what he's attempting- obviously doesn't have the skill to do it. But that's a hard lesson to take seriously from someone speeding, stunting, illegally passing, etc., while they comment on someone else's mistakes."

I don't care who he is or how good he is- illegal is illegal, discourteous is discourteous, and stuning doesn't belong on a public road. Same rules apply to all- and I've heard all of that expressed many times on this forum before!

It's a very easy lesson to take, actually.
I can't see the video since the page isn't loading, but for this one, I think I don't need it.
A lesson about riding skills doesn't have anything to do with "legal" or "illegal", it's about riding skills. I know some riders that ride way more illegally than I allow to myself, but they're very skilled riders nonetheless, and I'd suggest to any new rider to listen to their advice as long as it doesn't concern road behavior, and most of them wouldn't give advice on road behavior anyway, knowing their "bad habits" (and I break the law from the moment I sit on the bike until I get off, mostly speeding, sometimes passing on solid line when I'm really annoyed, and lanesplitting and passing in the same lane is legal here, and comfort of those whom I pass isn't much of my concern, if they're uncomfortable, they shouldn't be on the road, I tend to think more and more that the road is a place for skilled people only, and right now, a majority of people who are out there, don't belong).

Actually, I don't believe that same rules should apply to all, either. It's a simplification that is made for lack of ability of people to apply correct judgement to a situation. Especially, I don't believe that trucks, cars, bikes and anything else that you might meet on the road, should share the same set of laws, and I think it's obvious, why.
But that's another story...








To remy_marathe:

Since I can't see the video and don't know the rider, I can't answer for him, and it's even harder to guess. But I can tell you that there is a way of keeping the bike in balance when going from braking to turning, which is quite similar to trailbraking - instead of finishing all the braking in straight, releasing the brakes, diving for the turn and applying gas, which unbalances the chassis (braking compresses the front, releasing the brakes decompresses it, diving in the turn compresses it back), there is another technique - riding the brakes into the turn, gradually releasing the brakes and applying lean, until the brakes are completely released, and then rolling on the throttle - this way, you substitute the compressing forces of braking on the front with compressing forces of turning, and the front remains compressed all the time. The downside, as with trail braking, is that if you use too much braking and lean together, you lose traction. Maybe that's what he does.

mudarra
10-24-2005, 07:04 AM
That video has been around a while. He is a good rider. When you are riding the dragon, DO NOT concern yourself with whats behind you. Faster riders WILL get around you. You must concentrate on each corner, DO NOT get distracted. If you are on one of the few straights and can shift to the right of your lane, then great. But, its too easy to blow a corner trying to accomodate a rider who has better riding skills.

60 MPH isn't insanely fast on the dragon, it was probably a conservative run for him, I have been passed while doing 52 MPH while riding the dragon, and I would estimate the passers where close to 70MPH.

Passing on the double yellow, yep, you take your chances. People do it anyway.

Wheelies.............who cares. They only impress squids anyway. Watching a talented rider rip through one of those corners at 70 is impressive!

sanglant
10-24-2005, 09:24 AM
Watching that guy (the one in over his head) leaning his body the wrong way, starting curves on the inside, and completely wandering into the other lane was just plain painful.

I noticed Gorman rolled on the throttle after he was well into a few of the curves; later than I would've expected. It made me wonder- is the ideal time to start rolling on when you've reached the bottom of your lean, or should one start rolling on as soon as the lean is initiated?


Roll on the gas as soon as possible. The correct line for most corners is the line that allows you to begin to add throttle the soonest (not maintenance throttle, but power throttle). That is the fast way to ride, and doesn't follow the traditional, arcing O-I-O lines quiet as well as people like to think. Modern bikes prefer to be ridden through the corners in a line that is more like a rounded triangle than a smooth arc. They have the suspension, tires, and brakes to handle it. They don't like abruptness; don't misunderstand that point. They all reward smoothness, but they can make transistions so much faster than the old bikes could ever consider. This is espcially the line taught by Code (Greg Gorman was an instructor for the Code School, too).

sanglant
10-24-2005, 09:38 AM
Don't think anyone is disputing the skill level of the rider- I know I'm not.

When I watched the film right after the link was posted- and didn't comment for this reason-

My thoughts were: "Yeah, the guy he filmed shouldn't be attempting what he's attempting- obviously doesn't have the skill to do it. But that's a hard lesson to take seriously from someone speeding, stunting, illegally passing, etc., while they comment on someone else's mistakes."

I don't care who he is or how good he is- illegal is illegal, discourteous is discourteous, and stuning doesn't belong on a public road. Same rules apply to all- and I've heard all of that expressed many times on this forum before!

X, I'm basically with Jack on the point about learning from someone faster. You won't get to be a good rider by watching Dudley Do-Right. Sure, you'll be able to keep the bike upright and get from point A to B, but that's about it. If we're talking about "how to obey all the rules" I'd agree with you. However, I'm not. I have passed on the outside of curves in the Gap, because when I was wanting to push it, I was that much faster than the bikes I was overtaking. It wasn't reckless on my part. I could see around the curve, and knew what I and my bike could do. I wouldn't recommend you try it, but "Speed Limits" and double yellow lines are set for the lowest common demonimator of drivers, and in America that is sadly low. Make no mistake, I can teach you how to ride a bike fast, and I can teach you how to ride one safely. Just don't expect me to be the poster boy for the safety vest crowd.

As a close, I'll ask this: removing the issue of imposed laws, which rider was in greater danger on those roads, the fast, thinking, skilled rider, or the slow, scared, unskilled rider? And trust me, Greg was no where close to the edges of his ability in that run, so don't mistake that he was pushing for the camera.

MotoMan
10-24-2005, 12:10 PM
...are set for the lowest common demonimator of drivers, and in America that is sadly low.

I would interject that all roads are designed with this in mind. I've said it before, roads are designed such that even the poorest (not financially, smart a$$es) drivers can operate a car relatively safely. As sanglant said, although illegal is illegal, what is unsafe to one is not necessarily unsafe to another given differing skill levels. And I'm not talking about perceived safety, but rather true safety, assuming such a thing could ever be measured. So while something may be illegal, it is not necessarily unsafe.

remy, if you watch road racers they all brake into the turns and then start accelerating somewhere around the apex. Generally speaking. This is illustrated quite well in the Ienatsch book, "Sporting Riding Tecniques..." or something like that. But that's fastest way around a track, not necessarily the safest way through a canyon.

anthony
10-24-2005, 12:22 PM
Yep, it's not as if the guy with the camera is saying, "Can you believe the guy in front of me? He's speeding, passing on the double yellow, doing wheelies, etc." That would be more than a little hypocritical.

His critiques of the rider in front of him were about riding above his abilities, running wide, and the like. If you read his account of his own riding, he gets on himself pretty hard for even touching the yellow line (not crossing it) a couple of times.

That said, I'm probably a poster boy for the safety vest crowd. I'm not a big fan of passing on the double-yellow, riding way above the speed limit on public roads, etc. The average car driver can't tell if a rider is "safely" within their abilities, and even expert riders can make us all look like reckless fools. That doesn't engender a lot of respect from the 4-wheeled community, and I think that lack of respect is a big safety issue for motorcyclists as a whole.

x_cuesme
10-24-2005, 02:18 PM
It wasn't reckless on my part. I could see around the curve, and knew what I and my bike could do.

I don't think you- or Gorman, for that matter- are reckless. I totally understand and empathize with skilled, fast riders and the dilemna of being able to ride their own ride on public highways. It has to be frustrating indeed- but the key word here is 'public'.

Travelling up to speeds of 100 mph or in excess (Gorman's words, as he describes his varyiing speeds thorughout his comments before watching the film clip) on Deal's Gap is risking other riders- whether it's well within his own riding skills or not. I'm going to make an educated guess that's well above the skill level of the average rider that actually does belong there.


but "Speed Limits" and double yellow lines are set for the lowest common demonimator of drivers, and in America that is sadly low.

I completely agree- all types of drivers, cage or bikes. It's a completely different thread, but until our country passes laws that require more than a barely adequate display of the positively most basic driving skills (bike or car), the laws have to remain that way to protect as many people as possible. Changing the laws regarding licensure is the smarter way to go- but I don't see that happening here.


A lesson about riding skills doesn't have anything to do with "legal" or "illegal", it's about riding skills.

I agree the lesson on riding skills worthwhile and the film offers good points- it's worthwhile.

The forum title is "Safety Hints and Suggestions", and I think pointing out the unsafe, illegal riding behavior- whether you have the skill to do it or not- is still unsafe, illegal riding behavior. The point is just as valid and does deserve to be mentioned in the context of this forum.

Does NOT mean the skills lesson doesn't belong here- just means both sides of the coin do.

sanglant
10-24-2005, 02:49 PM
X, your post is all well and good, but it doesn't address the reason I responded as I did, and that was to confront your first comment of:


My thoughts were: "Yeah, the guy he filmed shouldn't be attempting what he's attempting- obviously doesn't have the skill to do it. But that's a hard lesson to take seriously from someone speeding, stunting, illegally passing, etc., while they comment on someone else's mistakes."

The laws of physics don't care whether or not you're obeying the laws of man, while the police are perfectly happy to watch you do 35mph wobbling through a corner on the brakes. Dismissing what he has to say about one subject because you don't like what he did in a different one is foolish.

As an example, Keith Code, widely cited here as a top flight instructor, is a Scientologist. I think that's a rather bizarre belief system, and disagree with him on it. That doesn't stop me from reading his books and attending his riding schools.

x_cuesme
10-24-2005, 05:41 PM
sanglant-


"Yeah, the guy he filmed shouldn't be attempting what he's attempting- obviously doesn't have the skill to do it. But that's a hard lesson to take seriously from someone speeding, stunting, illegally passing, etc., while they comment on someone else's mistakes."

I didn't dismiss it- (I do understand why you took it that way, tho')-

I had to get past my personal disappointment to learn it is all. That's why it was a 'hard lesson'.

Someone that good needs to set a better public example because there are too many people who want to be just like Gorman when they grow up. That may be UNFAIR, but it's true.

When you build a rep you have to think about things like that- from all sides. It's obvious Gorman cares about other riders from what he wrote and wants to help them learn, but he needs to realize that his audience isn't the few smart ones he may talk to- it's a lot of unknowns that may (will) jump out there and attempt to imitate him.

Even if you take out legalities, extreme speeding, stunting, passing in the same lane through curves- Those do qualify as safety issues on public roads. They get people killed. Gorman should recognize that and at least do a "Superman Disclaimer"-

(You know...please do not try this from home. Jumping off roofs with a cape can be hazardous to your health...)

So I guess it's just a - on my part- "How can someone that GOOD ignore something that may be that BAD for the very people he's trying to help?" I had to get around that to absorb the lesson.

And I just may take you up on the 'learn to ride fast- and safely' thing someday- but I'm wearing my safety vest! ;-)

SoCal LabRat
10-24-2005, 06:56 PM
I agree the lesson on riding skills worthwhile and the film offers good points- it's worthwhile.

The forum title is "Safety Hints and Suggestions", and I think pointing out the unsafe, illegal riding behavior- whether you have the skill to do it or not- is still unsafe, illegal riding behavior. The point is just as valid and does deserve to be mentioned in the context of this forum.

Does NOT mean the skills lesson doesn't belong here- just means both sides of the coin do.

This was my reason for posting...I'm glad X "got it." I found it highly ironic to be posted in a safety thread.

I'm a beginner (1 year, 7k miles experience) and I plan to ride Deal's Gap next year. I will go only as fast as I comfortably can. I don't plan to be as wobbly as that guy Gorman pointed out, and regardless of who is coming up behind me or going around me, I will ride my ride.

What I'm not looking forward to is the pressure from riders who can corner faster than me (skill level, bike choice, etc.) riding my fanny. This is NOT a racetrack, this is a public road, and I have a right to be there.

For me it'll never be about who can do it the fastest. For me it's about being the best rider I can be, being safe, and having fun doing it. I think there are room for all of us out there. I would still not appreciate having someone in my space if I needed to swerve unexpectedly.

remy_marathe
10-24-2005, 07:26 PM
His pass just didn't look that unsafe. He gave the guy space, and waited to dart ahead till he had a view of the road that gave him the time to pass quickly and without gambling on oncoming traffic. Maybe it was loud, and jarring for the bad rider he passed, but that's a sound that's important to get over being startled by when you're riding, because it just plain happens to us all. Not physically reacting to it is an important thing, safety-wise, and the burden is on the rider who's being passed, not the one passing. The one passing's job is to not hit you, and not pass where it's possible to hit you. I've had it happen to me, and it scared the crap out of me, but the bottom line is that's my problem. It's beyond your control when there're sportbikers about, it will happen, and it's up to you to be prepared for it. Putting yourself somewhere you know sportbikers like to ride is putting yourself at more risk, particularly when somebody tries Gorman-like speeds without Gorman-like proficiency.
Another educational purpose served by the video; whatever the law, whatever courtesy dictates, passes like that one (and way uglier ones that might genuinely endanger you) HAPPEN when you ride twisties where other riders like to haunt. By riding these roads, you are accepting the risk, just like you'd take responsibility for riding around at bar close on friday night, if that's the [risky] decision you make.

LoDownSinner
10-24-2005, 07:37 PM
Calling a little power wheelie or two 'stunting' is kind of stretching the definition. While IMHO, wheelies should be limited to dirt bikes, a little wheelie or two is far from full out stunting.

Mugster
10-24-2005, 07:41 PM
This was my reason for posting...I'm glad X "got it." I found it highly ironic to be posted in a safety thread.



Where would you want it to be posted? Like you say this is a safety forum. Off the top of my head, i'd say more people from this forum have crashed there than on any other 12 mile stretch of pavement. So its a safety issue, lol. I can think of at least 5 crashes up there off this board...and its not like i'm much involved in riding activities with the group around these parts, so i'm sure there's been alot more....or did you miss the part where he passed the 2 riders in the ditch? Thats par for a saturday up there.

Thats just how the road is, like it or hate it, don't shoot the messenger. If it makes you nervous thinking about riding on it, my advice would be to wait a while and get some more time in before you go. Because you will get passed by both skilled riders that will think of not making you nervous...and you are bound to run into some real jerks that just don't care and will come around you in bad spots.

MotoMan
10-24-2005, 10:34 PM
My view is that, if there are faster riders behind you, when possible you need to give them room to scoot by. Obviously a turn isn't a good place for that, but anytime there's a straight, slow down and wave them by. To me, at least in the world of motorcycling, it's just common courtesy.

I did that several times this weekend and everyone that passed me waved thank you. I knew I couldn't safely keep up with them at their pace, so why hold up traffic? They're just going to get anxious and at some point perhaps make a stupid move or at the very least scare me when they shoot by.

I would guess that the unskilled rider up front probably didn't even realize anyone was behind him. How could he, his mirrors were never in his field of view with the way he was counter-leaning.

GregGorman
12-08-2005, 02:21 PM
:) Hello. I was wondering if someone could tell me the actual time in the video where I passed another bike in his lane while going around corner?

As for the illegal stuff - well, yeah it's illegal. I know my skill does not make grant me immunity from the law.

sanglant
12-08-2005, 02:23 PM
:) Hello. I was wondering if someone could tell me the actual time in the video where I passed another bike in his lane while going around corner?

As for the illegal stuff - well, yeah it's illegal. I know my skill does not make grant me immunity from the law.


Sure it does, Greg, like that time skill granted Henry and Charles immunity up on Red Mt.! :razz:

GregGorman
12-08-2005, 02:25 PM
LOL Well, damn. Why didn't it work in Montana when I got a speeding ticket while they had no speed limit!

Smitty
12-08-2005, 04:11 PM
I watched this video three times before I read the comments by Greg Gorman plus the ones of this thread.

First thing I noted was it was a NARROW road, but a pretty clean road. Even a cage almost takes up over 75% of the permitted road on said direction & kept on thinking what would happen if a deer, elk or moose to even a duck with her young ones. Though I am back to the Cdn Rockie Mtns in my thinking.

The road is full of BEAUTIFUL bends & it is from a left to a right to a left again with very few actual straights,but a bummer to make passes on & then one is against the law due to all double laned.

Then got to thinking that this unknowen rider was really good & probably the one person that I would like to ride with, only if I had done the complete run back & fourth a number or times & even then ask him to take it easy for he is not only a good rider, but a good thinker. THEN I read his comments & realized he was even better due to is waying of thinking about others, for instance, the rider with the wine helmet that was riding way over his maxim ability & Greg did not want to spook him. Sensible rider.

Noted he was down in the first two gears, with revs up nicely & I believe a time or two into third though he has all of that in his comments & exactly what time. Also noted the cages, & m/ s off to the right side off road & that sort of got my heart fluttering along with the truck & then three cages he passed. Sure an intended crossing the line to be able to pass the cages & felt one or twice he was close to the double line when he was solo on that part of the road.

Obviously I liked the run & am impressed with Greg Gorman not only for his ability to ride, but how he looks at fellow riders to how cage drivers will think. Okay so a few times the f/wheel was off the pavement, but then it is obvious he is a darn good rider in so many ways.

Mugster
12-09-2005, 12:35 AM
:) Hello. I was wondering if someone could tell me the actual time in the video where I passed another bike in his lane while going around corner?

As for the illegal stuff - well, yeah it's illegal. I know my skill does not make grant me immunity from the law.

Hey whats up Greg?

Hope you'll hang around awhile. I enjoyed watching your track footage quite a bit. Very nicely done webpage.

GregGorman
12-13-2005, 03:08 PM
I noticed Gorman rolled on the throttle after he was well into a few of the curves; later than I would've expected. It made me wonder- is the ideal time to start rolling on when you've reached the bottom of your lean, or should one start rolling on as soon as the lean is initiated?

[QUOTE=sanglant]Roll on the gas as soon as possible.[QUOTE]

That's not quite the whole rule. The rule is, roll on the gas as soon as possible after turning is done. I personally know it's possible to roll on the gas too soon. You can see me do it in turn 2 at Barber. This short one, http://www.gormanonline.com/forums/8/ShowPost.aspx, or this long one, http://www.gormanonline.com/forums/2/ShowPost.aspx.

In this video at Barber, I get turn 2 right most of the time, http://www.gormanonline.com/videos/052204_bmp/GregGorman_052204_BMP.wmv.

Turn 2 at Barber is relevant becuase it's actually two turns that and you double apex them with one steering motion. You have to wait until the bike is turned for the second apex to get on the gas.

Alot of the sequenced left or right turns at the gap, I double apex and make a single turn for them. That means my full turn is longer then turn I'm in and usually it's tightening up at the end so I'm later on the gas.

Of course, I'm not perfect either so I could just be late on the gas. :smile:

GregGorman
12-13-2005, 03:14 PM
The guy can ride. My problem is that he's doing wheelies, passing in double yellow, and passing other bikers in their lane space. It's riding with guys like that behind me that freaks me about about riding Deal's Gap. He won't make me ride faster than I can handle, but he sure has hell will ruin my good time.

And if he passes me in my lane, I'll rip him a new one when I finally make it to the finish...

When passing, I treat other motorcycles like cars - I get out into the other lane and pass them. I do have one exception to that rule and that is if the rider moves over to the right side of the lane and waves me by I'll pass them in lane.

And, as some people know, if I did something stupid around you, I'd probably apologize to you before you could rip me a new one.

Of course I do have a different sense of stupid.

Smitty
12-13-2005, 03:56 PM
Without question this has been a very enjoyable thread to read & watch ESPECIALLY as Greg Gorman has made comments on it to even be answering some of the regulars. I like his outlook on how he rides & especially his sensible way of thinking obviously when riding to even after.

When racing & after the race be it road racing, MXing, Enduro. Cross Country events (even Observed Trials where just one rider tackles a section so comments on how we lost it or cleaned it or in some cases it would be a fellow rider that saved bike & self form going down hard) so many of us were in chat with each other & since we were fighting for a place or more ahead of each other we did make comments to each other to our errors or how surprised we were when the other chap overtook us on one spot & made it a battle to finally sweep him on a burm, bend or such.

You stay friends as competitors, for we are bound to be racing them within a short while like a week or two or three, which is different to the first one in where he was actually riding on a regular road, yet on the others he was with fellow riders & so a different outlook. Thing is Greg has a polite way of not trying to scare riders or cage drivers which is the way of a good & experienced rider. So my compliments to Greg Gorman.

Mugster
12-13-2005, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=sanglant]Roll on the gas as soon as possible.[QUOTE]

That's not quite the whole rule. The rule is, roll on the gas as soon as possible after turning is done. I personally know it's possible to roll on the gas too soon. You can see me do it in turn 2 at Barber. This short one, http://www.gormanonline.com/forums/8/ShowPost.aspx, or this long one, http://www.gormanonline.com/forums/2/ShowPost.aspx.

In this video at Barber, I get turn 2 right most of the time, http://www.gormanonline.com/videos/052204_bmp/GregGorman_052204_BMP.wmv.

Turn 2 at Barber is relevant becuase it's actually two turns that and you double apex them with one steering motion. You have to wait until the bike is turned for the second apex to get on the gas.

Alot of the sequenced left or right turns at the gap, I double apex and make a single turn for them. That means my full turn is longer then turn I'm in and usually it's tightening up at the end so I'm later on the gas.

Of course, I'm not perfect either so I could just be late on the gas. :smile:

To me, he gets on the gas early and often and alot of it, lol.

As a general rule of thumb, the more throttle you carry the less capability you have to steer. I usually carry a neutral throttle on street rides until i'm either past the apex or past the point of my maximum lean, depending on my line selection. This is probably not the fastest approach to cornering or at least all corners, but it gets the job done, and leaves a wider margin for error on roads you may not be too familiar with, imo. I usually try to get the throttle cracked a bit as i'm coming off the brakes and nearly fully rolled in or comitted to the turn. I might be a little more aggressive on a road i know pretty well, but prolly not much.

GregGorman
12-14-2005, 12:56 AM
Thank you everyone.

subvetSSN606
12-14-2005, 02:39 AM
BTW, welcome aboard Greg!

Tom