MSF course???????

[JsWoRLd316]

Hey BB community how yall doing, As you all know or must of you know im a 16 yr old boy who wants a motorcycle, i know most of you know my story. Today i signed up for the MSF course and payed it. That class took a big chunk of my pay check but i guess my money is going in the right direction if im getting a bike. Im very excited and i cant wait until the day arrives, is august 19, i know is along time, well for me it is. I just wanted to post this because i want you guys to give me tips on what to expect and what are the things i have to do to pass the class.
I apreciate your time to answer this post.
B safe
Ride safe

Jonathan

[MarcS]

What do you have to do to pass the class: exactly what the coaches tell you.

[asp125]

Congratulations on taking the first step. It might be a large chunk of change right now, but NOBODY I've ever met considered MSF a waste of money. Most of all, have fun with it, it will open your eyes as to what riding is all about. Do come back and tell us how you did.

[AReeves]

Yup worth every penny. Ok the best advice that was already given to you up there by MarcS is to pay attention to the coaches. They're there to make sure you pass. Ask questions if something isn't clear to you. You don't want to make a mistake when you're running the field test because you misunderstood something. You only get one chance. It's pretty hard to fail the written test, so don't worry about that. If it's hot, bring a cooler with lots of water, and maybe some snacks too. Relax and enjoy it. You're doing the first step in becoming a motorcycle rider. It's exciting and it isn't easy. You will feel a big accomplishment when you pass. Listen, learn, execute and you'll do fine. -Good luck! -
Ann

[AnthonyC]

I concur completely on paying attention, eating and keeping hydrated. I'd also suggest trying to get a good night's sleep prior to the classes (can be hard when nervous/excited but it will help). Keeping alert and your energy up will make things go a lot better. Being tired/hungry/dehydrated will effect a lot of things that will impact your ability to ride well.

Ant

[Mugster]

Get yourself an irc client and come chat with us. One of our semi-regular chatters is 16 with an fzr400 that just got started. You guys might be able to swap stories. His nick is argo.

The server is 'anarchy.tamu.edu/6667' and the room is #beginnerbikers. We're most active around 9pm-2am EST on weeknights. Durn leftcoasters.

[Missy B]

Congrats on signing up for the MSF Jonathan! I'm sure there are other things you could have used that money for, but you made a wise choice. I dont know that I had that much sense of responsibility at your age.

Hubby and I had to wait 2 months for the MSF class, so I understand the wait time, but it'll get here! Keep us posted!

[Chrystal]

Congratulations on taking the first step. It might be a large chunk of change right now, but NOBODY I've ever met considered MSF a waste of money. Most of all, have fun with it, it will open your eyes as to what riding is all about. Do come back and tell us how you did.

+1

Congrats!

Keep us updated!

[Ranger]

Congrats Jonathan! I think you'll really enjoy the MSF class. As suggested above, try to get a good night's sleep the night before, although I found that pretty difficult because I was so excited. Pay attention to the rider coaches, have fun and relax. If you pay attention, the written test is easy. If you listen to the rider coaches, the riding test will probably be easy too. When I took the class last year pretty much every range exercise was slowly building up to the riding test. Then they basically ran us through the entire riding test as the last range exercise before taking the test.

One other suggestions - read a few motorcycle books before the class. It will help you grasp things better since you will be familiar with some of the concepts, like countersteering. I suggest
- "The Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Guide to Motorcycling Excellence: Skills, Knowledge, and Strategies for Riding Right "
- "Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well" by David Hough

There are links to these and other great books in the "Links" section of the site.

[bkrgrl750]

I second all of the opinions about the MSF course being well worth the money. My husband taught me to ride the summer before my MSF course, so I had a lot of the basics down beforehand...but I still got A LOT out of the Basic course. And, actually, I wouldn't mind taking it again with bike I ride now (from my humble beginnings on a 250 Rebel). I still haven't managed to stay in "the box" with the 750, but I try...

[valgal]

Jonathan, You will not have any trouble passing the class and it is well worth the money. The class teaches good technique and skillful practice of handling the motorcycle.

That being said, the class has it's limitations and there will be many skills you will need to learn on your own.

Some of those that I have been working on are: Starting at a stop in the middle of a hill, in the middle of a hill going right, in the middle of a hill going left. Continued practice of my U turns. Gradual introduction and assimilation into progressively denser traffic. Constant evaluation of traffic situations when I am in my cage on how I would handle it on the motorcycle. And so forth.

The book by David Hough is most helpful as is picking the brains here on this forum.

Have you gotten your motorcycle yet? What do you have or intending to have.

Stay safe, ATGATT and abide by the posted speed limits. Your life is too dear to too many people to not play it smart.

Val

[valgal]

PS I totally bombed the figure 8 portion of the test and became a real head case. After it was all said and done I realized I could totally bomb that section and still pass, and did. Don't let the figure 8 bother you. But I can tell you that it is much better to practice the figure 8 in class on their small bikes than on my Ninja now!!!

[HOT RICE]

I've signed up for the Canadian MSF equivalent (Aug 26)... and i'm really nervous because i've never even rode a bike before (only as a passenger)...should I be getting in some practice before hand so I don't look like an idiot in class or do they teach you everything right from scratch???

[Lezbert]

I've signed up for the Canadian MSF equivalent (Aug 26)... and i'm really nervous because i've never even rode a bike before (only as a passenger)...should I be getting in some practice before hand so I don't look like an idiot in class or do they teach you everything right from scratch???

First off, welcome to BB.org! Lots of great information and people here. :)

If the Canadian course is the same as the American course, practice won't help much. The course is designed for those with no motorcycle experience whatsoever. A person should be able to attend the class without having ever mounted a bike and pass with flying colors. If, however, you "practice" first, you run the risk of learning bad riding habits. It will be easier to learn good riding habits if you don't have to unlearn the bad ones first. Don't worry about "looking like an idiot." Breathe, relax, listen to your instructors, and enjoy yourself! You'll be surprised at how well you do.

Good luck and let us know how you do!

[valgal]

That depends. It is a good thing to know how to start up your bike and shift. I would have felt like a real idiot if I had to learn to shift in front of everybody there.

The only problem with doing a few things on your own before the class is that you may very well have to unlearn some of the things that you have learned on your own.

Some of the things I can think of that I had to un learn were:

To not cover the front brake. To use their starting sequence and shutting off sequence, they were pretty picky about that in my class.

I was used to my own bike and very attached to it. Then I had to get use to their bikes. With the slightest of pressure on the gear shift lever without any engaging of the clutch, my bike would slip into neutral. And that really messed me up. I had to adjust where my foot was on the peg, it seems like a little thing but it was one more thing to adjust to. The transition to their bike was a challenge, and one that my instructors were not whatsoever interested in helping me with. Oh well.

If I had to do it al over again, I'd probably had tried to get the MSF book and read it through first to have picked up on some of the things that I had to undo. And then I would have spent less time on my own bike before I went so I wouldn't have been too attached to it and wouldn't hae had to much unlearning to do.

Val

[HOT RICE]

That depends. It is a good thing to know how to start up your bike and shift. I would have felt like a real idiot if I had to learn to shift in front of everybody there.
Okay so I don't know how to do even that yet... you're saying I should???

[valgal]

No, you should do what you think would make you most comfortable.

I suppose I should have qualified that for me it was a good think and I would have felt very uncomfortable figuring out how to shift a motorcycle in front of the other people.

I am glad that I had that part down before I went, it was a real comedy of errors learning at home and I was glad to have had it down.

In hindsight though, they had a very good and progressive way of teaching a person how to get the hang of things. I was impressed with how beginner friendly it was.

It actually reminded me of how they teach little kids to ski at ski school.

I have to be honest although I was impressed, if I hadn't had that down, I wouldn't have had enough time to have mastered it before moving on to learn the next skill. I learn at my own pace and seriously the class did not cater to my pace. It was better for me to have had some knowledge before hand.

Don't let my idiosyncracies get you worried, they have a very sequential way of teaching where things build on each other, you will most likely pick it up just fine if you do not take your bike out once before you go.

Another advantage of having no experience is that you will learn on a small bike. And hey if you drop it or mess up on it, it isn't yours. The 125 is much lighter and easier to handle than my 500 sitting in the garage. The 500 in the garage has a throttle that demands much more respect than the 125 I was on. If you have a larger bike, it may be worth your while waiting.

Val

[AnthonyC]

I've signed up for the Canadian MSF equivalent (Aug 26)... and i'm really nervous because i've never even rode a bike before (only as a passenger)...should I be getting in some practice before hand so I don't look like an idiot in class or do they teach you everything right from scratch???

I went into class knowing how to shift and where everything is but I had only actually done it once (getting the bike I had already bought into the garage). They'll teach you everything you need to know.

If you feel more comfortable preparing for it a little more something like "The Complete Idiots Guide to Motorcycles" is actually pretty good at going over basics (how to start the bike, where everything is, general principals, etc.) and providing advice for buying gear, bikes, etc. David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling" will provide a TON of practical knowledge, theory and advice and is a great book to have no matter how long you've been riding. I'm sure there are others but those are the two I would recommend at the point you are at. I know the MSF has a book, which I don't have yet, but I'd imagine that might be a pretty good resource as well.

The Complete Idiots guide isn't as useful after you've learned to ride but the information it provides on various bikes and things to look at when buying used, etc. can still be useful. Proficient Motorcycling is a book I've taken to pretty much re-reading every year at some point.

After you start riding there is a much bigger list of good books.... :)

Ant

[Logan]

I've signed up for the Canadian MSF equivalent (Aug 26)... and i'm really nervous because i've never even rode a bike before (only as a passenger)...should I be getting in some practice before hand so I don't look like an idiot in class or do they teach you everything right from scratch???


I assume the course is geared towards the total newbie.

No need to practice, but you could do some reading (proficient motorcycling, motorcycling for dummies, etc) & familiarize yourself with the controls and the Basic concepts of motorcycling.

Then you can go to a shop, sit on a small bike in the showroom, just get a feel for the controls & such.

You'll be fine. :chopper:

[AReeves]

Like Val, I think it might have been easier for me too if I wasn't already use to my own bike and had a bit of difficulty getting used to the position of the bikes we used for the BRC. But actually otherwise clutching, shifting, braking are really easy on the bikes and you'll get the hang of it in no time. It's ok to be nervous, I'm sure everyone is to some extent. There were two people in my class who'd never been on a bike and they both passed the course. They at first had a little bit of trouble with killing the engine when starting out in first but after awhile got the feeling of the friction zone and were shifting like pros by the end of the class. Good luck and welcome. -A

[pdxvespa]

Hot Rice, you're not the only newbie waiting to take the course-- I couldn't get in until September! After winning my Vespa in a raffle a couple of weeks ago, I studied for & passed the written test and got my instruction permit. Will get the full endorsement after taking the class. Since then, I've been practicing my figure-8's and U-turns in empty parking lots, and taking lots of short gentle rides on side streets.

There's a good video, Ride Like a Pro, that I've found helpful, and the same fellow makes one specifically for beginners >> http://www.ridelikeapro.com/Beginner.asp

Be safe; have fun; & let us know how the course goes. You'll finish before I will!

[Greg]

I must be one of the few that do not know your story. Glad to hear there is a chapter on taking the MSF though.

Good luck.

[valgal]

Logan has a good point of going to a shop and sitting on a bike, etc.

The first encounters I even had with my bike were merely introductory.

The first couple of times the bike did not even leave the garage.

I learned where all the controls were and what things I needed to check for before I took off out of the driveway. I learned how it felt to sit on it and balance it standing still. I learned to start it and turn it off. I learned how to lock the wheel in place and to make sure it was in first when I turned it off.

The MSF is kind of like this too. You start with just learning where the controls are and how to turn the bike on. In neutral you paddle the bike across the parking lot with your feet. After doing it in neutral you put the bike in first and give some throttle and paddle across but don't disengage the clutch. THEN you actually go into first gear. See it is progressive.

My big fear was because we live in a hilly area. Just out of my garage and to the street is a mild slope and that worried me. The first time I took the bike out, my husband took it down to the street for me where it was flat. But now I am going down and up hills, stopping in the middle of hills and starting again, starting a turn in the middle of a hill at a stop and taking dog leg twisties going down steeper inclines.

Seriously if I can do this you can too. Go and have fun. Don't take yourself too seriously when you make a mistake. Take the mistake seriously and correct it but don't let it get to you. YOU CAN DO THIS.

Hey, I BOMBED on the U TURN section of my test and was still able to pass so don't let that frazzle you either. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!!!

Val

[armedequation]

I have never ridden before(not even dirt bikes). I just took the class at the end of July and had a blast. I had great instructors and decent people in the class. They had a variety of low cc bikes and I ended up on a 250 suzuki. The first day was a little frustrating cause we had two people (mother & her daughter) that would not get up past 5mph while doing some of the drills, it was a drag as you definitely need your speed up when you do the weave. The mother and daughter quit the class half way through the second day. I felt bad for the daughter (she was crying when she left) but the mother had never even ridden a bicycle before. When they left the class did much better. I had a little problem with the box as the suzuki didnt have much clutch play, I noticed the people that had the nighthawk's didnt need to use their throttle if at all as their clutch was alot tighter. The instuctors were very good and they both had taken the class after years of riding and said that they were glad that they did as the class pointed out their bad habits.

Anyways not sure if you have attended the class yet but here's a link to the MSF course book that you go through on the first night:

www.ndw.navy.mil/headquarters/enviornmental/motorcycle/BRC_riderhndbk_MSF_2004.pdf


this is the EXACT book they have, the only bad thing is that for some reason they wont let you print it out so you'll have to read it online, hope it helps and good luck!

[x_cuesme]

armedequation, congratulations on taking the class and thanks for posting the link-

We had one woman quit the morning of the second day. I hated to see her go- she was 'getting it' but she was slow- and at the same time, it was a relief for the rest of us because she really was disrupting the class. In her case, she'd said over and over "What am I doing here- I could be shopping!"

I think her husband and son were why she was there...she was perfectly happy riding pillion and capable of riding a bike, but I don't think she wanted to. If that's correct, at least she was smart enough to know what she liked doing!

[armedequation]

I tried to click on the link I gave and it didnt work so I'll try it one more time:

http://www.ndw.navy.mil/Headquarters/Environmental/Motorcycle/BRC_RiderHndbk_MSF_2004.pdf

[AReeves]

Armed- I tried the link and it worked for me. There is no scroll bar but all you need to do is use your arrow down key. Congratulations on taking and passing the BRC, and welcome to the forum. Alot of us have taken the BRC. Thanks for the info. -Ann

[mediajackl]

...No need to practice, but you could do some reading (proficient motorcycling, motorcycling for dummies, etc) & familiarize yourself with the controls and the Basic concepts of motorcycling. Then you can go to a shop, sit on a small bike in the showroom, just get a feel for the controls & such...

What the total never-ridden-before newbie should do before MSF is one of the great debates of the BB world (that, and the "new/used for first bike" thing).

I'm with Logan on this. I'd ridden moped and scooters a couple times, but that was it. Had no idea how to start a motorcycle and only a vague idea how to shift. The good news is, I still passed.
But in my class, which was generally great, the instructors kinda zipped through the stuff like control locations and start-up. Looking at a smallish picture in a book with lines pointing hazily to a general area of the handlebars was not a huge help. I got behind almost from the get-go on that one and had to play catch-up, which isn't easy in a fast-moving MSF course. What likely saved my butt is that I'd driven manual transmission carss primarily for 20 years, so shifting by sound and downshifting were not new concepts.
The outfit that runs the MSF course I took now offers an optional pre-MSF introductory session of a few hours to go over the basic basics. It would have done me a world of good.

Hot Rice, Armed - welcome to BB!

[AReeves]

Each BRC must be different because we spent an inordinate amount of time learning where everything was and going over the Fine-C a ton of times, and what all the levers etc were for.Everyone in the class had at least a little bit of experience already as well but they still went over everything more than once. I can't stress enough to anyone who is anticipating taking the course- Do Not Be Afraid to Ask QUESTIONS. While you're thinking about what did he mean?, what is he talking about?, why am I here? the instructor has already gone on to the next topic. So when they say, any questions?, don't be ashamed to ask. Maybe someone else is wondering
the same thing but is afraid to ask also. This is more than a job to the instructors. They're all committed to making you the best possible rider out there. Your life depends on it, and I think they really take that whole concept extremely seriously. -Ann

[LoDownSinner]

The class is designed for people who have never been on a motorcycle.

I'm extremely surprised to find out that they let someone on the range that had nevr been on a bicycle. That's a big no-no.

[remy_marathe]

Each BRC must be different because we spent an inordinate <snip>
There is a lot of variation, from what I've seen here as well. The one I signed up for, what I had and hadn't been on was never called into question, and we breezed right over control locations, etc- a relief for 14 out of 16 of us. But really the classroom section in mine was just shy of useless, I think (the course was STILL way worth it, mind you- everyone learned something regardless of experience). The driving range was just where the teachers were at their best. The two students in our class that had the biggest difficulties did fine and kept up, but I think all the research I did beforehand and the tutelage of my best friend allowed me to get more out of the class than I would've otherwise.
It helped for me that I bought my motorcycle a couple of weeks before, and with my permit I made VERY TENTATIVE forays into the neighborhood. I would NOT recommend this for someone with limited experience driving a car; you have to know where it's safe to hide/bail out on a maneuver, where the idiots congregate, and what constitutes high-risk places on the road. Without some driving under your belt, you don't know this as well as you think you do.
Having a motorcycle to just look at, read the owner's manual, and identify its various parts, controls etc. at your own pace and in a relaxed atmosphere was nice, too and I highly recommend it if you can do it without buying your own.
I think any research you do beforehand will help you to learn OTHER things in the MSF course; the instructors all have way more to teach than several days allow. And for anyone still in high-school that's looking to try motorcycling, 1) take a small engines course, even if you're a nerd like I was- you need to UNDERSTAND how these things work if you're going to maintain them and 2) keep it to the dirt/backyards/trails until you've spent a few years driving a car, unless you're somewhere rural. I may be in the minority on the latter, but that cage didn't quit teaching me about pucker moments for years after I was allowed in one.

[GundamPilotX]

I took the BRC in May of this year. It was pretty fast-paced, and on several exercises I gave the instructor a puzzled look and said, "You want me to do WHAT?!". He had no problem giving a more detailed explanation, and the "demos" they did where they got on a bike and showed you how to do the exercise was VERY helpful. I had driven a MT car for about a year before and I conned my brother into letting me ride his racing 4-wheeler that had a similiar clutch and shift pattern to most motorcycles. Getting some clutch/shift practice on a stable 4-wheeled "bike" was probably the best thing I did to prepare for the MSF. Good luck, gentlemen. You'll do just fine if you pay attention.

Justin

[AntiElvis]

HotRice:

As someone who took the Canadian BRC with no previous experience, I don't think you need to practice before the course. I didn't, and did just fine.

[pdxvespa]

Good luck, gentlemen. You'll do just fine if you pay attention.

Justin

I'm assuming you'll extend the good luck wishes to the female gentlemen amongst us? ;-)

--Deborah

[HOT RICE]

HotRice:

As someone who took the Canadian BRC with no previous experience, I don't think you need to practice before the course. I didn't, and did just fine.
Thank you AntiElvis

cause I was starting to worry from hearing some of the previous stories,
I mean I know nothing, and I mean nothing about riding a bike...I used to ride a bycycle when I was a kid/young teen but that was many years ago...i'm really nervous and want to prepare myself the best I can... thanks for the re-assurance and let me know if you have any tips from a Canadians prospective... :)

not that I don't appreciate everyone elses posts...just i'm afraid it might be a bit different up here... :neutral:

[LordSmoke]

Each BRC must be different because we spent an inordinate amount of time learning where everything was and going over the Fine-C a ton of times,...snipAnd that is probably not enough. Shhh, don't tell anyone, but there are only two things I do religiously when I ride - check the brake lights, and FINE-C. There is little more frustrating to a new rider than forgetting F, running out of gas a few hundred feet down the road, killing the battery trying to start the stupid thing, then spending the rest of the afternoon getting a new battery and realizing in the first eight hours of ownership you have actually pushed the motorcycle as far as you have ridden it. Don't ask how I know - I just do. ;-)

[Hawk Girl]

I took the BRC class in June (in the US) and it was great. I had no experience, other than on the back of my hubby's bike. THe class was slow enough that it was easy for me to catch on. Sometimes I even got bored by the repetition when they went over stuff while we sat on the bikes. I wanted to ride! But it was a great way to learn the basics.

You should know how to balance a bicycle and it's helpful to know how to drive a manual transmission car.

There is still a lot to learn after you get out of the class. Practice in a quiet neighborhood or parking lot until you're more comfortable. Then get out on the streets when the traffic is light. Take your time working up to the more challenging situations if you can.

I hope all of you enjoy your classes, pass with flying colors and have fun!!

[GundamPilotX]

My apologies, pdxvespa...should have read all the posts before I responded.

Good luck!!!!!

^_^

[armedequation]

"Hot Rice, Armed - welcome to BB!"

thanks for the warm welcome! I had your same concerns Rice as I was in the same position as you before I took the class. Another good recommendation is to go to your local DMV and pick up their rider handbook and look it over. Looking at the one online helped me out alot!

[pdxvespa]

My apologies, pdxvespa...should have read all the posts before I responded.

Good luck!!!!!

^_^

hey, GPX-- thanx! ;-)

[HOT RICE]

I tried to click on the link I gave and it didnt work so I'll try it one more time:

http://www.ndw.navy.mil/Headquarters/Environmental/Motorcycle/BRC_RiderHndbk_MSF_2004.pdf
:heyyou: This link doesn't work for me :(

[Logan]

:heyyou: This link doesn't work for me :(


It's a pdf file.

Do you Adobe Acrobet loaded?

It's a free program if you need it.

[armedequation]

also I'm not sure if it works with firefox, If I cant get it to work for you then head down to your local dmv and pick up their booklet as it should be very similar to this. I will try to get it to work for you though....

if you need adobe 5.0 try download.com for it, otherwise I am not sure where to download it

[pcsavvy]

I took the CA MSF course last summer. I had experience driving a stick shift car but that didn't really help me very much. The MSF course was very informative and instructive for me since I had NO previous experience on a bike. It's 18 hours-8 hours of classroom and 10 hours of range time.

This is totally worth the time and money to take. I don't think I would be able to ride a motorcycle or scooter as a newbie without the training the class gave me. I probably could but I would find myself in lot more trouble. :werd:

I passed the course and got my class M1 license.

Get a good nights rest and drink plenty of water.

[Logan]

also I'm not sure if it works with firefox, If I cant get it to work for you then head down to your local dmv and pick up their booklet as it should be very similar to this. I will try to get it to work for you though....

if you need adobe 5.0 try download.com for it, otherwise I am not sure where to download it


www.adobe.com

The reader is always free.

[HOT RICE]

I passed the course!!!

The course was great, I learned how to ride a motorcycle and got my M2!!!

[Johnny Dollar]

Congrats, HOT RICE!

[pdxvespa]

I passed the course!!!

The course was great, I learned how to ride a motorcycle and got my M2!!!


You go! Now go out there and ride (safely, of course)-- :thumbsup:

[chilufya]

Took and passed the MSF this weekend, and couldn't wipe the dopey grin off my face during range time. I need to practice 'the box' some more, especially once I finally get a machine (a scooter, much to the derision of my classmates and instructors).

But oh my gosh I love that breeze in the face! And my wife isn't even objecting!

[Chrystal]

Took and passed the MSF this weekend, and couldn't wipe the dopey grin off my face during range time. I need to practice 'the box' some more, especially once I finally get a machine (a scooter, much to the derision of my classmates and instructors).

But oh my gosh I love that breeze in the face! And my wife isn't even objecting!

Congrats!

But you need your own Intro/Welcome thread!