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prester_john
03-25-2009, 05:32 PM
American Honda has posted the following:

http://powersports.honda.com/2010/sh150i.aspx

This is a model that's been around for several years in Europe, where it has set all kinds of sales records. Top spec, probably a great machine, very expensive for what it is. Might be assembled in Honda's Euro factory.

Best,
Tom

TEvo
03-25-2009, 07:02 PM
I like it.

OBX-RIDER
03-25-2009, 07:34 PM
About $1,000 too expensive IMHO...

asp125
03-25-2009, 07:36 PM
About $1,000 too expensive IMHO...

+1 Scooter people will look at a $4500 scooter and go :shock: .. and then go buy a cheaper scooter.
Motorcycle people could find a good Ninja 250 for that.

jay956
03-25-2009, 07:55 PM
boo, wheres the vtr250?

Afflo
03-25-2009, 08:11 PM
How much are the Vino 125's?

Exidor
03-25-2009, 08:13 PM
+1 Scooter people will look at a $4500 scooter and go :shock: .. and then go buy a cheaper scooter.
Motorcycle people could find a good Ninja 250 for that.Gah! That's more than similarly sized models from Vespa, Piaggio, and Yamaha... and most likely several others. Wasn't Honda's own Big Ruckus about the same price? And it was a 250!

Exidor
03-25-2009, 08:15 PM
How much are the Vino 125's?$2899, per Yamaha's website. And Zuma 125's are $2999. Somewhat less displacement, but much better deals nonetheless, IMHO.

Afflo
03-25-2009, 08:21 PM
They should name it the "DN-0.5"

atonic
03-25-2009, 08:30 PM
They musta changed the link. I didn't see a motorcycle, just a scooter.

Repeater
03-25-2009, 09:57 PM
Looks like a snazzy little scooter for sure! But $4500 does seem steep, especially in the face of one of my favorite "small" (mid displacement) scooters - the Aprilia Scarabeo 200, which is $1000 cheaper. Always good to have choices, though! Especially since the Honda also seems to have the snazzy 16" wheels that, in my opinion, more scooters should have.

TJinPgh
03-26-2009, 07:16 AM
It's a nice enough looking scoot, and, I'm sure it's well made. But, I can get a brand new Piaggio Fly 150 for $1600 less or a Tourer 250 for only $400 more.

Once again, Honda proves that they simply don't get it.

For what it's worth, it's no longer just Honda USA that seems to be totally oblivious. I was looking at Honda's UK website and, other than the mandatory 125s that they have over there, they don't have anything in a sub 500cc range either. Heck, they don't even have the Rebel 250!

On the other hand, they do get the CBR 125 which has more power than this scooter at a lower price.

kwr8728
03-26-2009, 08:45 AM
Speaking of CBR 125, where are the 250, and 400 versions of that thing.

Bobthearch
03-26-2009, 09:07 AM
Once again, Honda proves that they simply don't get it.
Yep. Scooter shoppers are notoriously cheap. The whole point of scooters, after all, is to SAVE $$!!

You'd think Honda would have figured that out after the Big Ruckus...

midknyte
03-26-2009, 10:29 AM
They musta changed the link. I didn't see a motorcycle, just a scooter.

heheheh, That's a kinder way of say what I was gonna say -

That ain't a motorcycle! :rolleyes:

TJinPgh
03-26-2009, 12:14 PM
Speaking of CBR 125, where are the 250, and 400 versions of that thing.

Dunno. They were no longer on the UK website. In fact, other than a dirtbike (which may have been a dual sport), there were NO 250s anywhere to be seen. 125s, then 600s.

Not sure about the Asian markets, though. I found some 2008 listings on various world websites for some of these bikes...

CBX 250 Twister:
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Honda%20CBX250%20TWister.jpg
A 24 hp air cooled single

Here's a new one for 2009... The Nova CG 150 Titan
http://drivenews.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/cg-150-2009-1.jpg?w=459&h=345
A 14 hp air cooled single (I think) being sold in Brazil

A very similar 2007 CG 150 Sport
http://www.motoesporte.com.br/modelo2007/honda%20cg150sport%20verm.JPG
A slightly more powerful 15 hp.

XR 250 Tornado Dual Sport
http://www.bikez.com/pictures/honda/2005/22065_0_1_2_xr%20250%20tornado_Submitted%20by%20an onymous%20user..jpg
That pics was from 2005 but it's still listed on Brazil's website.
23 hp air cooled single (according to bikez.com)

That's pretty much it. Nothing in between those couple 250s and the 600s (which are all pretty much CBR based).

I have to admit, I do like that 250 twister

midknyte
03-26-2009, 01:23 PM
Dunno. They were no longer on the UK website. In fact, other than a dirtbike (which may have been a dual sport), there were NO 250s anywhere to be seen. 125s, then 600s.

Not sure about the Asian markets, though. I found some 2008 listings on various world websites for some of these bikes...

CBX 250 Twister:
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Honda%20CBX250%20TWister.jpg


Hey, that looks a lot like the Daelim Roadwin 125

TJinPgh
03-26-2009, 04:25 PM
Not surprising since Daelim builds a lot of Honda's bikes overseas.

We do get the Roadstar 125 here in the states (if you can find one) but not the 250.

The 125 goes for about $1200 less than that scooter of Honda's, though. Which, IMHO, makes it a far better bargain.

Chuck
03-26-2009, 04:37 PM
As it's already been said, once again Honda misses big time with the US market. When will they learn...

caeman
03-26-2009, 06:40 PM
As it's already been said, once again Honda misses big time with the US market. When will they learn...

What makes you think that Honda of America cares? They sell Goldwings and 600cc CBRRs. What else do they need to sell?

TJinPgh
03-27-2009, 11:37 AM
Goldwings remain pretty much the top of the line in their class. How much longer that's true remains to be seen.

The CBR, however... I see a ton of sport bikes on the streets around here. I can't say as I remember the last time I saw somebody tooling around on a CBR. At least, not anything newer.

As has been pointed out previously in this thread, their market share has fallen off more than any other major company. Clearly they're not selling as many of those Goldwings and CBRs as they used to.

Honda, for the last decade or so, has relied on name value and quality to draw people in. The problem is that the other major companies have caught up to them in that respect. It's unlikely that somebody starting out on a 250 or 500 Ninja is going to rush out and buy a CBR as their next bike simply because of a reputation Honda USED to have.

TEvo
03-27-2009, 11:44 AM
In terms of unit volume, I believe the CBR is second only to the GSXR in 2007 and 2008.

From what I have observed, this seems to be true. I see CBR600RRs and pre-`08 CBR1000RRs just about everywhere but not quite as many as the ubiquitous GIXXER.

Shadow Shack
03-28-2009, 06:31 AM
They should name it the "DN-0.5"

ROTFLMAO!!!


Heck, they don't even have the Rebel 250!

From what I've read, the 125/250 Shadow replaced the 125/250 Rebel in the U.K.


You'd think Honda would have figured that out after the Big Ruckus...

Why? They didn't figure it out with the Rune...


CBX 250 Twister:
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Honda%20CBX250%20TWister.jpg
A 24 hp air cooled single

I have to admit, I do like that 250 twister

As do I. And 24HP from an air cooled single...not too shabby considering how the CB250 Nighthawk/Rebel air cooled parallel twin only lays down 18 (at the crank, 16 to the ground).


Goldwings remain pretty much the top of the line in their class. How much longer that's true remains to be seen.


Yep, time will tell. Now that they've moved production back overseas I'm guessing they'll start farming some (if not all) of the electronics to China. We'll see if that MSRP drops like they promised it would.

caeman
03-28-2009, 06:55 AM
Honestly, I don't see a need to try and exceed the Goldwing. There is only so much room in the market for an over-price, over-weight, filled-with-every-gadget motorcycle. I see far more people taking their middle-weight 650 to 900cc bikes and turning them in tourers.

TJinPgh
03-28-2009, 11:13 AM
From what I've read, the 125/250 Shadow replaced the 125/250 Rebel in the U.K.

I was just looking at Honda's UK Website. I've found no evidence of either. The only 125s they have, other than scooters and mopends, are a CBR a Varadero, which I mentioned earlier. I saw NO 125 cruisers in their 2009 lineup. Which, in a country which mandates that you ride a 125 when you're first learning, seems absurd, IMHO.

Oh, and the CBF125, which I guess is new for 2009. Couldn't find it listed in with the regular listings, but, it looks like like the CG 150 a bit, but with a small windshield.

http://www.bikersunite.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/honda-cbf125-2009-stunner-red-300x225.jpg

For cruisers, the lowest I could find were the 750 shadows, just like we get. Well, that and the DN-01, whatever that has.

No 250s in the Adventure category. They have the Varadero and then the 700 Transalp.

The smallest bike in their "Traditional" category, which I'm guessing compares to our standards, are all 600s based on the CBR engine.

Near as I can tell, the ONLY bikes under 600cc they have on their website are, like here, the couple of 125s previously mentioned, some dirt/duals and a couple of scooters.

So, even in a place where people seem to buy a lot of lower cc bikes, they're not selling them?


As do I. And 24HP from an air cooled single...not too shabby considering how the CB250 Nighthawk/Rebel air cooled parallel twin only lays down 18 (at the crank, 16 to the ground).


Yup. Although, 40 hp from a liquid cooled twin might be even better, like the CB250 Hornet had!



Yep, time will tell. Now that they've moved production back overseas I'm guessing they'll start farming some (if not all) of the electronics to China. We'll see if that MSRP drops like they promised it would.

We'll see. Honda doesn't seem to be too anxious to try to fit in with the rest of the market when it comes to pricing.


Honestly, I don't see a need to try and exceed the Goldwing. There is only so much room in the market for an over-price, over-weight, filled-with-every-gadget motorcycle. I see far more people taking their middle-weight 650 to 900cc bikes and turning them in tourers.

True enough. Which is, ultimately, where I think Honda is missing the boat. I think they're OVER-specializing. I don't see anything in that sport tourer line in their current stable.

Shadow Shack
03-28-2009, 03:46 PM
I didn't realize the 125/250 Shadow fell out of the U.K. line up as well. I remember reading that it replaced the Rebel a few years ago. Maybe they're drifting away from the small bikes, and adopting a Harley-esque strategy of only producing profitable models.

Certainbly explains the demise of the 1800 VTX :lol:

caeman
03-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Small bikes can be profittable, as well. Just not as much as a Goldwing might generate. But, Honda is missing it. Yami, Kawi and Suzi are outselling them in the other area. Maybe Honda has simply given up?

TJinPgh
03-28-2009, 06:16 PM
Maybe they're drifting away from the small bikes, and adopting a Harley-esque strategy of only producing profitable models.

I can understand that theory a little here in the states where there are no size restrictions. But, to employ that thinking in Europe and elsewhere, where the law mandates that people buy smaller bikes, it simply makes very little sense.


Small bikes can be profittable, as well. Just not as much as a Goldwing might generate.

Maybe not in a per unit sense. But, what Kawa misses in per-bike profit with the Ninja, they more than make up for in volume.


But, Honda is missing it. Yami, Kawi and Suzi are outselling them in the other area. Maybe Honda has simply given up?

Sure sounds like it. I think they are cutting their own throats by doing it, though. While you're probably right that the others don't have much incentive to try to compete directly with the Wing, there can certainly be plenty of incentive to try to cross market sport touring bikes and say "Hey, do you really need that Winnebego on 2 wheels? This bike over here is just as comfortable, more fuel efficient and far more versatile and a good bit cheaper!"

Right now, if you want to get that kind of option from a Honda dealer, you've got to be looking in the used lot!

Afflo
03-28-2009, 06:29 PM
I didn't realize the 125/250 Shadow fell out of the U.K. line up as well. I remember reading that it replaced the Rebel a few years ago. Maybe they're drifting away from the small bikes, and adopting a Harley-esque strategy of only producing profitable models.

Certainbly explains the demise of the 1800 VTX :lol:

http://ww1.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/

In the UK, learners are restricted to 125cc bikes.

Which is why Honda has SIX 125ccs (I'm only posting the motorcycles... three of them are scooters, including a 125cc version of the Silver Wing)

http://ww1.honda.co.uk/mcStatic/en/picture/product/ANF125%20Innova/prd_bike_force_silver_metallic.gif

ANF125F Innova (an underbone - it's has a centrifugal clutch, but 4 speed transmission, so it's not quite a scooter)

http://ww1.honda.co.uk/mcStatic/en/picture/product/CBR125R/prd_bike_ross_white.gif
CBR125R
http://ww1.honda.co.uk/mcStatic/en/picture/product/XL125V%20Varadero/prd_bike_pearl_concours_black.gif
The XL125V Varadero - a Mini-Strom

I doubt anyone misses the Rebel.

The only cruisers they sell are the SHadow 750, and the DN-01, which is listed as a Cruiser in the UK.
Cruisers aren't as popular over there, though HD has made some inroads. The hot category in Europe (aside from scooters) is naked bikes with standard riding positions, such as the ER-6n, and this sweet model:
http://ww1.honda.co.uk/mcStatic/en/picture/product/CB600FA%20Hornet%20ABS/prd_bike_pearl_cool_white.gif

CB600F Hornet with ABS. The current version of the discontinued (in the US) 599.

This also explains why the HD XR1200 is so hot over there.

Of course, the downside of the UK is that they are WAAAAAY more hostile to bikes than here. The UK Association of Police Chiefs is calling for a ban on all motorcycles on the street, or at the very least, chips to allow them to be identified by police at a distance.

EDIT: Another point - there is an age limit on having a motorcycle with over 33 horsepower. Almost all manufacturers offer restrictor kits to bring down the power, and allow younger riders to own CBRs, YZFRs, GSXRs, etc.

Cindy
03-28-2009, 09:28 PM
It looks like a scooter to me. :mrgreen:

For that price, get a Vespa.

http://www.vespausa.com/

Shadow Shack
03-29-2009, 05:50 AM
But, to employ that thinking in Europe and elsewhere, where the law mandates that people buy smaller bikes, it simply makes very little sense.

Well...I never made the claim that anything Honda has done in the past six years ever made any sense :lol:


While you're probably right that the others don't have much incentive to try to compete directly with the Wing

Actually, they are competing with the Wing. Indirectly anyways. Yamaha's Royal Star Venture is pretty close, and Kawi's Vulcan-Voyager is another shot. While neither is quite as decked out as the Wing, you can think of them in the same class as an Electra Glide standard albeit with a trunk. I'd wager Suzuki might bring the Calvalcade back out of retirement soon, based on one of their big inch Boulevard models. Honda made a lame stab at that market with their VTX Tourers, but the consumers were already bored with the usual same bike w/new fenders-pipes-and/or wheels routine so dipping into the extremely limited Hondaline Accessories bin for a windshield saddlebags and backrest (which is pretty much the entire line minus the bike cover) just didn't excite too many buyers.

Had they actually done something new, like slapping some hardbags onto the bike and offering a fairing/shield and a beefier frame, it might have been a hit. But face the facts: anyone that knows what a socket wrench is can do what they did and do it for less with a base R model VTX than what they asked for the Tourer. For the $1500-1600 difference Honda asked on their Tourer models, you could acquire some aftermarket set of snazzy hardbags and a fairing with drill points for a radio, and you might have enough coin left to either color match the paint or fill in that radio gap with some tunes.



In the UK, learners are restricted to 125cc bikes.

To that end, many Japanese bikes utilize the larger 250 design and insert sleeves w/smaller bore pistons. The 250 Rebel was available in 125cc guise, same bike part for part until you got into the cylinder head and saw the smaller pistons and the metallic sleeve. Ditto for the 125/250 Shadow (which shared the motor with the VTR250). That 125 Veradero? Uses the same mill from the VT250 Shadow, and at one time it was offered in 250cc guise as well. Technically it would be little work for a decent wrenchman to punch them out and swap the 250 pistons and voila: instant upgrade.

subvetSSN606
03-29-2009, 06:49 AM
Some things there just is no making sense out of.

Once you accept that they're insane it gets easier. ;)

Tom

Shadow Shack
03-29-2009, 07:18 AM
You know, I've often contemplated hitting myself in the head with a ball peen hammer so I could figure out what Honda is thinking.

But then everything clears up when I look at my wallpaper of the 2010 Triumph Thunderbird.

prester_john
03-29-2009, 03:53 PM
It's a nice enough looking scoot, and, I'm sure it's well made. But, I can get a brand new Piaggio Fly 150 for $1600 less...

Chinese machines continue to make inroads with the BB crowd!

Tom

PS - While you might think with a brand name like Piaggio, the Fly is manufactured in Italy like the Honda SH150i, you'd be wrong. The Fly model we get in the USA is made in China.

TJinPgh
04-01-2009, 04:06 AM
PS - While you might think with a brand name like Piaggio, the Fly is manufactured in Italy like the Honda SH150i, you'd be wrong. The Fly model we get in the USA is made in China.

Well, my comment had less to do with where they were made than scooters with a decent reputation for less money.

One could go with a Kymco People 150 for nearly $1700 less.

Heck, for that matter, you could move up to the People 200 and still be less, or the People 250 for the same price as the Honda.

The Xciting 250 is only about $600 more than the Honda.

Downin*MN
04-05-2009, 09:37 PM
Some things there just is no making sense out of.

Tom

Well there sure as hell should be!!!!!
From reading this thread it sure sounds to me that maybe the top Honda execs should put down the saki, get their head & eyes up, look through the curve & quit fixating on the Detroit big three.

Doesn't any of this sound familiar to anyone else?????????

Mary

Shadow Shack
04-06-2009, 06:10 AM
Saki?!? You give them way too much credit.

I'd say they should try pulling their heads out of their asses and catch a whiff of fresh air for a change.

sprale
05-26-2009, 11:06 PM
Decent little scooter, but too much $ for what it is. Honda really seems to be missing the mark for the past 10-15 years...

caeman
05-27-2009, 06:45 AM
Honda is counting on people buying the name. They want the same cache as HD or Star.